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Blood Furnace..not even heroic and I already feel the pain

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Postby kalbear » Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:09 am

The only really time you need massive amounts of health is when a mob will regularily swing for massive amounts. Something that white swings for 8k will squash something with a 10k buffed health pool, no matter how hard they are to hit.
Not exactly. The only time you need massive amounts of health is when you need to take a lot of damage without being healed. Sure, hard-hitting mobs fit the bill here, but so do healers being silenced/stunned/dced, mobs stunning you, etc. Stamina is important because it increases your survivability directly. No matter what else, if you have more HP you can survive more, and this is true regardless of the situation. No other stat has that characteristic. Armor is only useful against physical attacks. Blocking as well. Dodge doesn't work against spells. Parry doesn't work from behind. Etc, etc.

Personally, I see 2.3 as a reason to stack stamina more, not less. Stamina just became the most improvable stat to stack compared to any other class. It is now a direct benefit to paladins. As such, that benefit should be maximized. It shouldn't be maximized at the expense of everything else, but you shouldn't go out of your way to deemphasize it for socket bonuses that aren't all that hot.
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Re: Blood Furnace..not even heroic and I already feel the pa

Postby Corynthia » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:02 pm

Exodius wrote:[The only really time you need massive amounts of health is when a mob will regularily swing for massive amounts. Something that white swings for 8k will squash something with a 10k buffed health pool, no matter how hard they are to hit.


I can think of one other situation where you'd benefit from a concentration of stamina: whenever you're taking magical damage. Unless you stack resist gear for each fight, you often have just your paladin aura (and that can be tough if it's a damage type we don't have covered, or if the pull has more than one damage type involved). In those cases, magical damage comes in at the same pace regardless of what your avoidance looks like.

When dealing with spell damage (which is the kind of damage that is most likely to kill you, barring a stun or fear that also hits your healer), avoidance doesn't help in the leastest bit.

Anyway, sometimes when I discuss/argue a point I get very involved, so let me be the first to say that there really are multiple theories on this, and both work to some degree in different situations. Your best bet is to keep multiple gear sets and to swap in what you need in different situations. It's nice to have +resist gear, +hit gear, stamina heavy gear, dodge/defense gear, shield rating gear (keep everything with this stat!), +mp/5 gear and so on. Just bank what you can't carry.

I don't mean to come across as mean or anything (to Exodius especially). I also didn't mean for this to become a referendum on stamina versus avoidance, and yup, effective health is the way to look at things if you take into account the factors for each upcoming fight and adjust.

Back to the OP, if you're dying too quickly in early Outlands content (which is what the post is about), you could try some careful CC, kiting the Techs that lay bombs (which are probably the biggest source of spike damage early in the run), or upping your stamina to take a few more blows, etc. My personal suggestion would be some strategy changes, bouncing between your fire and shadow resist auras, and more stamina.
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Postby s4dfish » Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:08 pm

Tanked it last night, was a bit humbling (at 60). I think the primary problem for a lesser geared tank is the large amount of magical damage. Between the casters and the technicians, I went down FAST a couple of times, and not due to poor healing.

It's a challenging instance to tank, but doable. And of course no tanking gear dropped...
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Postby Corynthia » Thu Dec 20, 2007 6:17 pm

s4dfish wrote:Between the casters and the technicians, I went down FAST a couple of times, and not due to poor healing.


You'll get complaints from melee, but there is an easy way to make the Techs a breeze. Make sure you're the only one meleeing the mob and that you have plenty of room to manuever in (pull way back to bigger rooms or long hallways). Then, while fighting them, just slowly keep inching backwards, so you still hit and block the mob, but you naturally back away from any mines they lay. If you have even one other melee, they won't get out of range in time and they'll set the mines off anyway, causing plenty of AOE damage. But if you don't activate the mines, the Techs cause very little damage.

After the pull, be the hero and go blow yourself up to disarm them (but don't die doing it) -.-
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