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Struggling with non-heroic Mana-Tombs and Auch Crypts

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Struggling with non-heroic Mana-Tombs and Auch Crypts

Postby Corynthia » Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:56 am

I tank for our static guild group, and we've started to hit some of the higher Outlands instances. The runs have gotten noticeably more complicated and even kind of messy, which just bugs me. A lot has to do with training our CC a bit better, and getting DPS to pay attention to slow threat starts (early fear, silence, etc.).

Our last two runs have just been a pain, however. In Mana Tombs, things actually improved when we stopped using our hunter to CC. Our mage was a little slow on putting poly back up, and it also caused some problems. I found my threat really varied from pull to pull because each pull had a different composition, and an early fear or silence just crippled me. Once mobs spread out, it's a fight to grab control again.

With Auch Crypts, we really struggled with the first boss. Before that, the instance was ridiculously easy, but the first boss, with his AOE fire bit, was brutal. Any advice on spacing, etc. Some issues might have been a poor selection of dps classes (frost mage and enhance shaman) with an off-spec druid healing and a Ret pally back-up healing. The main problem was that we lost party members to the AoE fire (even when they tried to spread out) and I wasn't getting heals fast enough.

I can see how a lock or a spec'ed/geared healer would have improved the situation (I eventually went to my priest, and the druid tanked, and we got him on the second attempt). Is there any especially good way to handle this guy? I keep feeling like it was just an issue with positioning.

We're limited on composition somewhat, because this is as much about taking friends (good players and likable) as it is about burning through the instances. Thanks for the advice.
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Postby Worldie » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:42 am

Off-spec healers might be bad while leveling.
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Re: Struggling with non-heroic Mana-Tombs and Auch Crypts

Postby Invisusira » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:40 am

Auch just basically sucks.

Mana Tombs is a CC nightmare, Crypts... well, there's a reason noone does Crypts. I don't think I've even seen the last boss in there before.
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Postby Corynthia » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:55 pm

Thanks. They all kind of look at me funny when I suggest 2nd attempts and then playfully imagine Heroic versions with them. We're going to start on Kara in a month or two, so I'm trying to convince them that wpining and challenges are fun.

Okay, just difficult instances. Thanks!
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Postby Comma » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:34 pm

For 1st boss in Crypts, read strategies on wowwiki first.

Have your melee dps stand on top of you, move together with you.

For healers, druid healer - hot on all melees all the time, priest healer - keep shield on tank, and hot melees too, pally healer - remind him he can bubble, and save shock for melees when low on hp, and ppl who got bombed by accident, shaman healer - place healing stream totem, save the instant heal for tank.

For range dps, dont take the risk of last second when they see fire under him, run right away.

You can tank him either under the stairs (move from left to right, right to left, etc) or upstair (more room).
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Postby Exodius » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:40 pm

I've only seen heroic crypts. But you would think it would be easier in normal. :?

I think the single biggest problem with crypts is it's the forgotten instance. The ideal level for it is about 65 or so... too big for when you are 60 and want to try everything you can, and too low when you are 70 and want to try the challenging stuff.

With the heroic mode, there are definitely easier heroics (mech, slave pens, underbog, ramparts). Because it use to be near impossible from what I heard, with summoned adds coming at a very fast pace every pull, people use to hate it, and that stigma has lived on.

I've cleared the heroic version. In the group was a shadow priest that had run that place a million times to try and get the enchant that drops there and was happy to mark. I've read a little and can mark a bit...

But I think people's wipe tolerance is lower in that place. If something goes wrong 3 times in a row in heroic mech, people just write it off and continue to keep going normally. Even if the group composition is not ideal and mistakes happen, people would just ignore it and keep trying longer because it was "just heroic mech".

But because it's the dreaded heroic crypts, people give up easier. And no one runs it regularily so it's harder to learn the best paths and strategies.

I was in a group that was struggling a bit with the first pull. The warlock was crap (one of those green wearers) so he left and we got a good warlock. After a few wobbles we get the hang of it and clear one mob, then another, then another. Then we wipe one or two more times, but I think people had had enough by then, even though we were clearing it well enough. :(

But getting back to the OP question... for the first boss, the closer you are, the aura he has makes your spells slower and slower. So don't start with a frisbee toss. By the time you are in range you likely have aggro. Because it takes forever to cast with his aura, you will be off to a bad start aggro wise.

He is undead though, or a demon... but anyway, instant cast exorcism will work on him. Use that instead of your frisbee. What worked best for us is fighting him at the top of the stairs (where hs starts) while everyone ran past and sets up in the room.

He has a dot thing that targets someone and hits hard when he finally casts. It's something like "boss focuses intently on (player X)". When you see that, and it never targets the tank, get the player to move. I think in heroic mode they need to keep moving, so a back up healer or one who can Hot would be good. And don't have people near where that targetted person was standing, because they will get splash damage.

And as I alluded to, try and have casters at max range so they don't get slowed. Healer furthers, then if necessary other casters closer due to space constraints.

For those who have not been through the whole place, the last few pulls before the final boss have a necromancer elite and about 15 skeletons around him. A paladin tank makes it trivial. I have no idea how any other tank would do it. You need to keep aggro on an elite while keeping 15 other mobs happy. That's our specialty. :D

The final boss will make evil shadow copies of the party that needs to be targeted and killed by the dps before they wreck havoc. Near the end the boss will make a copy of himself which needs to be double tanked. I didn't pick him up properly when we killed him, but we killed all but the boss copy when we finally wiped. When we got back, only the copy was there and was very easy to kill. :D

One more thing to note with the crypts is that the bridge leading up to the first boss has some eye thingies that spawn along it. After a few seconds it will do a huge knockback, and likely throw you off the bridge and kill you with no chance of resurrection. That means a run back. Kill them as soon as you see them.

For the tombs... I can't think of anything specific there. I don't remember ever being silenced though. You might be starting aggro with someone else. I think if that happens the AI reads you as "non-tank" and considers you a valid silence target. That's my guess. :?

Hope it helps. :D
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Postby Minn » Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:00 pm

I ran crypts the other night for the heroic daily. Tips for the first boss:

1. Break line of sight with the focus target area and you'll be safe. There are all kinds of nooks and corners in his area, it's like the place was designed for ducking out of LoS. Melee need to turn and run, or strafe, as backing up usually won't be fast enough.
2. HoTs > all. The boss does very little melee damage. You should be able to survive on renew/rejuv for quite a while. I took more damage from his bite (DoT) but that shouldn't be too hard for healers to handle.
3. DPS needs to take into consideration the spell cast speed debuff, as well as the firebomb. Channeled spells like Arcane Missiles, or DoTs and Drain Life work well. Bolts with a long cast time fare quite poorly.
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Postby Aarek » Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:05 am

I did a heroic crypts yesterday for the daily, pretty much aoe pulled the trash, making sure to single target any of the possessors if you see them, a bad possess can be a wipe. I would mark them with a skull as I saw them spawn.
The first boss is the hardest thing about this place, healing is a pain though threat is a non-issue with casters. Make sure your healer knows to keep at max distance when healing you and to keep you and anyone else topped off as best as possible. DPS just has to make sure to not die and the fight isn't that hard. I tanked the boss at the left side at the top of the steps and let everyone else spread out up the steps on the right and they seemed to have plenty of room.

Rest of the instance is more of the same trash and some fun skelly pulls which arn't that hard. If you can beat that first boss you can beat the instance.
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Postby Corynthia » Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:32 pm

The LoS trick sounds super helpful. I kept trying to get the party to spread out, so that if someone got focused on, only they would need to move; the idea would be to spread out far enough so the AOE would never hit more than one party member.

We're headed back tonight with a healing-specced priest and I'll try to grab a off-spec Feral druid to heal for that fight. I think that it will make a big difference. We also have a decent hunter for DPS and our enhancement shaman. We actually downed the first boss on our eighth attempt last time (and I switched out to a holy priest to help heal, and wasn't tanking). After that, our bear got frustrated tanking the big skelly groups, so we quit for the night. Tonight should be much better.

Also, aggro is a non-issue on this fight because he's undead. I'm thinking of dropping my threat seal, however, and going for a light judgement and seal to slow his damage even more. As far as the DoT goes, I can momentarily bubble (and cancel right after) to drop the bleed. I think tonight he'll be much easier, so thanks for the advice!

As far as Mana-Tombs go, our mage was the problem last time. She's awful about recasting her poly, so the mid-battle adds were awful to deal with. We brought a second mage, and used her to poly (and she was using a timer mod to stay on top of her poly), and Mana-Tombs was ridiculously easy. Good CC really helped a lot.

I appreciate the advice (and already scoured WoWWiki and the web for help before coming here). If I have any more questions, I'll add them, but for now, I completely appreciate the moral support and the new thoughts that came from the thread. Thanks again!
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Postby Westcott » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:16 am

I hate Crypt's. Don't even want to talk about it.

Mana Tomb's, though, I didn't find to be that bad. Even prefer it to alot of places. Last boss is only thing I've ever had trouble with, but that was always dps vs. sparks issues.
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Postby Metrodin » Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:58 pm

I just hit 66 last night and I'm looking with trepidation at AC and MT.

Its more due to the trash mobs than the bosses though. I remember a lot of MC'ed party members in AC, and a lot of mana-burns and silences in MT.

I've run AC only twice on a hunter alt, but the first boss seemed straightforward. The Fire AoE is clearly indicated by a flare on the ground beneath the player that is targeted. Leg it as soon as you see the flare and there should be little collateral damage.

I guess these two instances are ones where you need dps'ers that aren't stupid.
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Postby Exodius » Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:22 pm

I tried heroic crypts a week or so ago on my priest. I was not tanking (obviously) but another (poorly geared, but I guess adequate) tankadin was.

We had two rogues going up to the first boss. He was just plain old painful as his flame attack would target a rogue, forcing the whole melee dps including the tank to move.

This move would likely either put them out of healing range (bad) or put the boss so close that his anti-magic aura would stack up (even worse).

The tank was not the best, and it certainly did not help that I was rusty with my priest and am not use to ranging heals properly now a days. Getting that debuff on a priest though makes healing a pain and a half. We just wiped too many times because of the melee dps in my opinion.

So you might want to consider not running with melee dps players (rogue, ret paladin, dps warrior, enchanement shaman, feral druid).
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Postby Somrael » Tue Dec 11, 2007 7:46 am

One thing I discovered in Crypts is that if you get possessed, you can bubble right out of it. Sure it wipes your threat, but the possession does that anyway, and it will put you back in the fight at least. I usually run with my guild which is white damage heavy, so if one of them gets possessed I just do what I can to tank my teammates; I fear rogues far less than mages.
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Postby Corynthia » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:20 am

Just a follow-up (although this is good info for others):

We've run both instances since my first posts without any problems at all. We reliably one-shot the Auch Crypts boss, as long as everyone knows the fight, so it's doable. Mana Tombs was only a problem with poor CC.
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Postby Amirya » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:02 pm

I've not yet hit Crypts, mostly 'cause I've not been interested in it. But yeah, I need to do that soon.

As for MT, I really didn't find it to be that hard, even when I started tanking at 65 (except for Nexus-Prince Shaffar and his friends, but that was just a matter of wrong dps set up and me having a wee bit too little health).

It depends on the mobs and their groups, but I usually do it in burn order of:
Priest
Darkcasters (Cleanse is your friend here)
Theurgists
Mages
Crypt Raider
Scavenger

I don't even bother with CC in here; it usually just leads to more trouble than help.

Nexus-Terrors are easy - Exorcism is a fun way to pull them, because there's no chance of AS bouncing to anyone near them, and when they're trying to eat my face, I throw my shield at theirs then. Just have your priest pop a Fear Ward on you, or your shaman drop a Tremor Totem.

Mana Leeches, I run of Seal of Light and tank them solo. Let the DPS AoE them down (my usual dps is a bunch of clothies, soooo...). Just make sure the healer is keeping you up; they arcane explode and it can hurt.

Bosses:
Pandemonious - Turn on Shadow Resist Aura, use AS, use Exorcism, Judgement of the Crusader, Seal of Righteousness, Consecrate. Exorcism every time the CD is up. And when he shifts into the void, make sure your party isn't dpsing him. Otherwise, he's cake (and he really hates holy damage, so I always hold aggro here).

Tavarok - Devotion Aura, AS, Judgement of Light, Seal of Vengeance, Consecrate. JoL is mostly helpful when he does the AoE stun and keeps trying to stomp my pretty face. If my healer isn't my usual healadin, but is someone with HoTs, then I sometimes use JoWisdom instead. It's rare someone in my group has no mana bar.

Shaffar - I hate this guy. Soooo much. Devotion Aura, AS, Consecrate, Judgement of Light, Seal of Vengeance/Righteousness. In the course of this fight, I will also pop my trinkets as often as I can, healing potions as often as I can, my healthstone, and at least once I've had to use my Lay on Hands. I am a threat-magnet, so I'm usually getting stomped by Shaffar and his friends. But with a high dps group, he goes down fairly fast, and the adds are pretty easy.

Btw...you know that Shaffar doesn't like you anymore when he manages to 2-shot you. Nothing like seeing a whole bunch of sparkly lights from Shaffar and his friends all blasting you, and you dying in 2.2 seconds...
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