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Help needed on first ever movement fight

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Help needed on first ever movement fight

Postby Nidal » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:55 pm

I've been tanking on my Pally since around lvl 40 and just recently hit 70. At first I was just doing 'ok' with the starter Outlands instances as my gear was all green and I was often grouped with fairly well geared DPS.

But, I made an impression. Recently 4 guildies got frustrated with the PUG warrior they had picked up to tank Shadow Labs and dropped out (after several wipes on trash before the first boss). I had just logged in and they asked me to come tank for them.

I really didn't think I was ready gear wise and told them so, but they insisted. Two of the group had seen me tank before and were confident enough that I could handle it.

With not a little anxiety I set about my work...and did quite well thank you very much. The praise that I was receiving about how good of a tank I was made me very happy as I had never really gotten a 'pat on the back'. I was happy, the group was happy...

And then the last boss came. Now mind you, I literally owned that instance up till that last boss so I was confident going in...until one of the group informed me that I'd have to walk the boss up and down the hallway to avoid Void Walkers that explode on contact with the boss. Not to mention the constant teleporting back to the dias.

So, it was the first time I'd ever had to tank something and move at the same time. Things didn't go well. Four wipes later we gave up as I and several others had too much equipment damage to go on.

I managed to hold aggro except for one time I lost it to the Warlock, but I got it back right away.

My problem was the disorientation with the teleport. I simply didn't know which way to go. At first I didn't even know there was another hallway to go down. Then I couldn't tell which was which, and I had to make a snap decision on direction due to the pounding I was taking from his firestorm spell he casts right after the teleport.

If I chose the wrong hallway, just once, Voids would start exploding and we'd all die. We only made 4 attempts, only 2 with me even knowing about the second hallway. So I didn't/couldn't notice any patterns or anything to help me determine which way to run after the teleport.

Since the rest of the instance went so smoothly, if the problem was someone else it would have shown before then. Therefore I had to take full responsibility for the failure.

I also had problems with speed during my little walk. Too fast and I'd run out of room, too slow and the Voids catch up.

So how do I handle this fight? Any particular patterns in the spawning of the Voids? Or in what way I'll be facing after a teleport? Any landmarks that I can use to tell where I just was and where I need to go now? How fast do I move along the hallway? Can the firestorm spell he casts right after the teleport be silenced or interrupted? Any secret 'safe' spots?

It was pretty embarrasing to blow it at the end after all the praise I had received earlier on, so any help I can get would be appreciated.

My gear has improved since that atttempt so I'm eager to give it another try, but the movement aspect still has me intimidated.
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Postby Jarkeld » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:01 pm

If you do the kiting strategy, you really need A LOT of dps, and it's really only needed for heroic mode. For normal, you can just assign a ranged dps to kill all teh void guys and tank him in place, is a lot easier.
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Postby Teah » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:02 pm

The guy with the voids is much easier to do if you simply have one of your dps kill the voids. After the second or third rain of fire have that dpser switch to the boss.

If you do need to move him you can simply circle the platform he is on most of the time. DPS is really the key in this fight. I've had instances where I stood in one spot and we burned him down no problem. While this is very extreme, I find a combination of kiting/killing works better then just kiting.

Get used to strafing while tanking, and when you do move him remember to drag it through the concescration.
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Postby Everlight » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:39 pm

We've always killed him by moving him around. Pop your wings EARLY, so you can frontload heaps of damage, and go to town.

We take him to the left (around behind the pillar that's there) first, then to the right on the first Rain of Fire, then north, then south. He's usually dead some time during the north run, or while he's going right.

The most important thing is to keep shifting him around a bit - the VW's are really slow so you can easily keep them just out of reach of him. Mages with FN help a lot, as does Hunter frost traps.
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Postby Arianne » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:44 pm

When you're kiting you should always be walking backwards or strafeing backwards using Q/E while holding the S key down. That said, the boss doesn't need to be kited continually, just whenever a VW approaches. Make sure you have your view all the way zoomed out and pick which way you're going to go first before you start. If you hold down your right mouse button while running a direction you can keep your character facing a certain way. Just go outside and practice running a mob around and knowing where to keep yourself in relation to the mob.
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Postby Soulbreaker » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:28 pm

My strat on that fight is AW then AS from range when he gets to me I JoR Cons then start walking backwards down the hallway doing JoR when it's ready. Also keep HS up.
When he teleports I jump off the dias (go north) toss AS and RUN all the way down the hallway.
After the second teleport I run south toss AS cons and JoR when he approaches and just tank him in place pretty much.
My well geared DPS usually finishes him by then.
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Postby Everum » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:32 pm

I never understood why kiting down the hallway is needed on Vorpil. I usually pull him down his altar to the right side, pop AW and build up as much threat as I can while dps is going to town on him. Pan around and watch where the first voids come from. If they come from the hallway where you came from, slowly move Vorpil up the stairs and across the altar but NOT behind the pillars. Your dps and healer needs Los. It's a matter of positioning so you never get boxed in by the Voids. Try to keep the voids together as much as possible. After a few runs you should be getting a feel for it. Once you're able to 'see' how to position Vorpil so the Voids go where you want them to, it's easy.

Important is that you dont move too fast or too soon from the voids. Cross over to the other side too early when voids are still too far away from you and they will just cut a shortcut straight to you.

If getting boxed in is a problem because gazillions Voids are about, then your problem is dps. Get recount and take a good look what your dps is doing and write them off your invitelist. You are bringing a higher threatceiling to the table as a tank not even considering Salvation. Least the dps can do is .. *gasp* dps. Good riddance to dps who can't dps or worse, dont know how to squeeze every bit of dps out of their class.

Edit: That may sound harsh, but you always hear players complain about tanks not being able to hold aggro, take too much damage, healers being 'noob' and not healing fast or smart enough. Well, turning the tables on dps is what I do. You dps to our satisfaction, or you are out.
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Postby PsiVen » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:02 pm

Basically that's a dumb strategy and nobody should use it.
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Postby Tresjynn » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:54 pm

I dislike running Shadow Labs for two reasons:

1) Blackheart throws my mana out a window so I have to bring pots, and
2) Every single time we get to Vorpil, the group has to have a sit-down and a discussion over which strategy to use.

I find the kiting method unreliable and liable to have him teleport right onto 2 or 3 voidwalkers just walking across his platform, thus healing him, thus losing all the ground we gain by having all DPS on him. He teleports back, Rain of Fires in place, and voidwalkers are converging on him from all directions while he's rooted. I don't see why anyone finds this better than killing voidwalkers as they spawn (and, for the first two waves, they spawn SLOWLY) and getting rid of that randomness in the fight.
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Postby ulushnar » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:58 pm

We've never discussed strategy on Vorpil. We just go hell for leather, nuke the boss and ignore the adds. We;ve killed him a couple of times before the first port.
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Postby Madmordigan » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:03 am

While there are ways in normal mode that are 'easier' for the tank to kill him...

Consider him to be a Benchmark on situational awareness and maneuvering *while* tanking. That is killing this boss while being forced to maneuver is a good opportunity to force you to improve player skills :)

Truth be told, when you get warped, take a moment to get your bearings, look where the least VWs appear to be and hop off in that direction. Sure the fire damage hurts a bit, but not nearly as bad as finding a pack of hungry VWs right there waiting for him to follow.

If you are using A and D to stear, go ahead and flip your camera around so you can see what is behind you as you back up. Just remember it's like backing up a car :p

Also, don't move unles you are *going* to need to, and don't move right on top of a portal.

Also, consider binding some of your core tanking spells to your mouse and easy to get to keys. The thread "Confessions of a Clicker: Paladin Edition" has a lot of people showing their keyset. That is, if you are looking at tiles, you're not looking at what is around you :p (Do it a handfull of spells at a time or you'll get lost).
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Postby guillex » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:29 am

We use the kiting in normal, and I'll use it in Heroic... Kind of like the shammy boss in SP.

Basically, I kite him north, then south. Meaning: Up wisdom, pop wings, shield toss, run to the platform, judge on the way/up righteousness, drop a consecrate for a minute while there, then start walking backwards.

He's taken a couple of VWs while I kite him, but it's nothing substantial.

I tap S ever so slowly to bring him down. If I see a portal up, then I move a bit quicker. Hopefully you have a mouse button set to switch your camera angle backwards ... This helps a lot, so you can maneuver around any ports that pop behind you.

When you get teleported, run off the platform, turn around, and toss your shield again. He'll come right back atcha, and you can kite him south.

If your DPS is lacking, then you might have to go north after the second teleport, but that's cake... No turning around required. There are times where I do it the other way also, south and then north... Those are the runs that I feel lazy in, lmao.
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Postby Brute » Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:46 am

My preffered strategy on this guy is this:

Pull him off stage and start kiting him south. when you get to the south end of the room, stop and dps for a bit.

When he ports you back, everyone jump off to the south and kill a VW. There will only be a couple; don't be concerned with getting them all. This also gets you a chance to get your bearings and see where any unkilled ones are. Usually you can have most of them dead by the time he finishes his rain of fire but if you don't it really doesn't matter as long as you see where the live ones are; dps gets back on the boss as soon as he leaves the stage.

Kite him back south again and avoid the portals by moving left/right and avoid any existing VW's. Stop again when you get to the end of the room.

This fight is highly dependent on your DPS to kill him before they start spawning at too high a rate, and its also dependent on you steering him away from the VW's. You can totally get away with only killing them when he's up there dropping fire. If one happens to get to close, a competent DPS will switch to it and nuke it and get right back on the boss, losing only a couple seconds.
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Re: Help needed on first ever movement fight

Postby Questioner » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:14 am

Nidal wrote:And then the last boss came.


I know I know, nothing to do with your post, but, I just thought I would mention that Vorpil is not the last boss. He opens a door to Murmur.
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Re: Help needed on first ever movement fight

Postby guillex » Thu Sep 13, 2007 8:43 am

Questioner wrote:
Nidal wrote:And then the last boss came.


I know I know, nothing to do with your post, but, I just thought I would mention that Vorpil is not the last boss. He opens a door to Murmur.


I was actually going to mention that... :oops:
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