Debacle in the crypts.

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Debacle in the crypts.

Postby Martie » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:43 am

So, early this morning I get invited to a party for the Auchenai Crypts. I tell the guy that I haven't slept well, and that I'm very tired, so it may not be a good idea, but he tells me that he has an okay party, and that we should be okay.
I agree to come along, and notice that there are a bunch of level 70's in there (me being level 68 at that point.) I explain that, depending on their state of gearing, I may have some trouble holding aggro, but that it should be doable. (Since I found out that anyone able to pull aggro off of me at this level should be able to handle having aggro.)

I ask the other paladin (ret) to give everyone salvation, throw kings on everyone and we start. Things are weird. They are ignoring the marks, but we are making progress. Stuff dies, we don't, so all's well, I think. I mean, these guys are grossly overpowered for where we are. After about a dozen mobs, I notice that the rest of the party doesn't have blessing of salvation on them, so I politely ask the paladin to apply it. Immediatly holding aggro gets doable, and on the second pull after that I die. I die because I got no healing.

I should have quit then and there.

Two pulls later, I see my hp falling down and down, and at 5% health, I bubble and ask where my healing is. True, that does get me some healing, but only after the mobs are downed.

I should have quit then and there.

Then we get to the first boss. You know the guy, he throws bombs under you, and makes casting slower as you get closer to him.
We wipe. I check recount and see that I got -no- healing. I tell them I need more healing, and we try again, this time the shadow priest will help healing. We try again. The DPS (a warrior and the mentioned paladin) manage to get themselves killed on one of the bombs, and soon after I die, because I get no healing.

Now I start wondering. I downed the boss before, back when I was level 66, with a 66 healer and some lower level dps.

So we try again. Again we wipe. I check my recount log, and see that again, I died because I got insufficient healing.

At this point the paladin leaves. We get a rogue to join us, I make clear that I'm only gonna try one more time, since I don't want to spend all my gold on repairs. We tell the rogue the tactic for the boss (Hit him and run when he looks at you,) and try again.

Again, we wipe. Again, I got next to no healing. (During all these tries I did get hit by a single tick of a bomb.)

So I start wondering, why did we die? Everyone (claimed) they knew the boss, and I know that my tanking on the boss was flawless. So I start checking my recount data for the various deaths. I start with myself, and see nothing wrong. I take a lot of damage, but that's my job as a tank, and the damage isn't so high that I shouldn't be able to handle it. I check the DPS, and see that they all die to the bite debuff, which is expected.
Then I check the healer. I notice that he, too, died due to the bit debuff. But the boss only throws the bite debuff on mobs in melee range.
So then it dawns to me. The damn shaman stepped into melee range on every single fight. No wonder I got no healing if our main healer was getting himself hit, and being unable to cast.
By that time, the party had disbanded, and I whispered out healer that he was the cause of our wipes, and why he was such. He was nice enough to apologize.

Lesson learned. Just because someone is higher level and better geared then you doesn't mean they know what to do better then you.

I think I'll stick to my druid healing buddy from now on. When he's healing, we have mana breaks when the DPS runs out of mana. (And even then only if I want to give them a mana break.)
I'm about to drop the hammer...
...and dispense some indiscriminate justice!

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Re: Debacle in the crypts.

Postby Vacalline » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:52 am

Martie wrote:Just because someone is higher level and better geared then you doesn't mean they know what to do better then you.




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Postby Inukshuk » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:48 am

Not to say you shouldn't have received healing, but it's important to remember 2 things about Shirak the Dead Watcher:

1) He has an AoE debuff that enormously slows down spellcasting, making heals slow. This debuff slows casting down even more the closer you are to the boss, but even at 40 yards, it's an enormous slowdown (something like 100% increased cast time).
2) He regularly uses an ability called "Attract Magic", which pulls everyone to him. Healers cannot remain at range the entire fight, as they will be pulled in by attract magic. It's quite common for Carnivorous Bite to be applied immediately following an attract. This puts healers in a tough situation. They're taking damage, but you're dying as well, so they sometimes try to heal you. Now, given their proximity to the boss, their heals are insanely slow at this point, and it's just bad news. Of course, if they turn and run away to range again, they aren't healing you while running, and they're going to have to get a quick heal off before the next attract magic (which, by the way, interrupts casting as well).

It sounds like your group was a problem, but healing on Shirak is quite difficult, and your healer WILL be in melee range for some portion of the fight due to attract magic.
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Postby Spectrum » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:57 am

A lot of people avoid AC because it is only two bosses for a lot of pain. However I never had too much trouble as a druid healer (yay insta-casts)

All in all, the group did sound a little weird. Not getting heals on trash should be a big red flag. Any time a group wipes on trash you should examine the group and think hard about whether they'll be able to continue. Of course some trash pulls are harder than bosses.
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Postby Tyaera » Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:07 pm

At least the healer was nice about it.

Your biggest mistake was going to Crypts at all. :lol:
better to tank in hell than DPS in heaven
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Postby Martie » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:01 am

Inukshuk wrote:Not to say you shouldn't have received healing, but it's important to remember 2 things about Shirak the Dead Watcher:

1) He has an AoE debuff that enormously slows down spellcasting, making heals slow. This debuff slows casting down even more the closer you are to the boss, but even at 40 yards, it's an enormous slowdown (something like 100% increased cast time).
2) He regularly uses an ability called "Attract Magic", which pulls everyone to him. Healers cannot remain at range the entire fight, as they will be pulled in by attract magic. It's quite common for Carnivorous Bite to be applied immediately following an attract. This puts healers in a tough situation. They're taking damage, but you're dying as well, so they sometimes try to heal you. Now, given their proximity to the boss, their heals are insanely slow at this point, and it's just bad news. Of course, if they turn and run away to range again, they aren't healing you while running, and they're going to have to get a quick heal off before the next attract magic (which, by the way, interrupts casting as well).

It sounds like your group was a problem, but healing on Shirak is quite difficult, and your healer WILL be in melee range for some portion of the fight due to attract magic.


Yeah, I know. The problem on that run was the whole party.

At the start of any instance, I explain how paladin tanking works in a few words, tell the group what the best tactics are, and that they are free to tell me when I should change something.
(They rarely listen.)
I generally read up on what bosses do before starting them, and I always ask if there are people who know how to handle them, and if there are any tips.
But it just blows if people say they know their stuff but don't. I shouldn't be the one to tell the shaman to use tremor totems on fear-intensive fights, for example, and I shouldn't be telling mages to stay at range if they often pull aggro. Wait, stay at range at all times.
I'm about to drop the hammer...
...and dispense some indiscriminate justice!

This is my armory profile
Martie
 
Posts: 246
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:27 pm


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