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How do I "learn" instances?

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Postby Snake-Aes » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:35 am

Impenetrable Darkness / SSO shields >>>>>>>>>>>> Crest. The crest has so much less armor that the extra TWO stam just won't cut it.


Now, for a new guy, just do every instance you can in your level range. 60-62 for ramps, 62-63 for furnace, stuff like that. As long as the top end of the instance's levels is not three+ above yours, you'll be fine with blues and maybe green gear.

Read up on what each mob does. Casters have to be line of sighted into your melee or CCed, some monsters stun so you may want to stun them before they stun you, some monsters drop aggro so you want to be ready to pick up.
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Postby Frickit » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:01 am

Snake-Aes wrote:Impenetrable Darkness / SSO shields >>>>>>>>>>>> Crest. The crest has so much less armor that the extra TWO stam just won't cut it.


Now, for a new guy, just do every instance you can in your level range. 60-62 for ramps, 62-63 for furnace, stuff like that. As long as the top end of the instance's levels is not three+ above yours, you'll be fine with blues and maybe green gear.

Read up on what each mob does. Casters have to be line of sighted into your melee or CCed, some monsters stun so you may want to stun them before they stun you, some monsters drop aggro so you want to be ready to pick up.


I really like Culdarra for 30ish badges. I never did get nightbanes shield to drop til I already had the mgsw. Culdara is basically identical with a few points less. However the SSO ones are nice as an alternative to those two.
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Postby Maswin » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:03 am

If you're worried about the pulls just ask the group if there's someone who knows which should be marked/cc'ed and go from there.

Having a rogue as my main, I never really paid much attention to the marks and pulls, just which one had the sap mark and which one had the skull, so it was a bit daunting having that responsibility as a tank.

You'll make mistakes, you'll cause a wipe (heck i've tanked loads now and i still make reckless pulls - mostly when the healers drinking) but as long as you learn the general pattern of the mobs then you'll be fine
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Postby Kelaan » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:17 am

I did Ramparts about 5x as a healer when I was 60-61, before I had a chance to tank it. Not by choice, but because no one else had healing gear. (Losers...) In the process, I got to experience the pulls firsthand (it'd been a while since I was there on my hunter), and saw the places I'd have done differently.

0) If you can afford it (*ahem* mains ...), buy yourself some of the BOE greens from the auction house with stamina and defense. I think it's Champion. These are well itemized for tanks. Try to get the ones that there aren't clear quest reward alternatives to.

0.5) Try to get some fire resistance plate. It's not absolutely necesary for Nazan/Vazruden, but it can help. Your group still needs to not stand in the damn fire though. (Mine always seemed to fail at that. wtf.)

1) Do the Hellfire quests, good shield and plate rewards from there. The 42 stamina helm (?) and the plate legs from the goblins are both quite good for when you can get them.

2) Do Ramparts until you have everything you need from it. (Or, nearly everything, if the boots don't drop.) I include healing gear in this, as the neck/ring/cape lasted me until ~65ish (or later). It sounds overkill, but you will soon get to where you are confedent not just in the pulls, but your tanking abilities. By that time, you'll be about ready for Slave pens or Underbog. ;)

3) Do Blood Furnace a couple times; I found it very punishing (esp the demons at the end) without a spell interrupt. LOTS of casters so crowd control is Tres Awesome.

4) Tank Slave pens and Underbog several times; you should get some good upgrades from there, too. Don't try this unless you either have (a) everything you need from Ramparts / Blood Furnace, or (b) are level 63 or 64. You can do it before that, but the extra level makes you much hardier (less crits, no crushes). Run those until you get several good upgrades, and until you are confident in the instances.


Someone made a good point. You have 70s already, you should already know these instances very well, especially if you've ever had to CC in them. (My main was a hunter.) You're going to have to learn which mobs are the ones that are kill-first vs CC-until-last, but even that is a matterof group preference. Go in, tank it up, don't be scared. If you're prepared, you should do well. Be prepared. :)
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Postby Seloei » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:50 am

Best way to learn em is to do them. Or read up on it on wowhead for example, if your unsure.

Durnholde, after the nerf feels like it is on normal mode... while on heroic. Mobs have about twice less health, no more huge hitting reinfos spawn. Before the nerf it was a fun challenge, now when i happen to pass through it i've gotta pull 2-3 groups just not to go oom.

But... start off with normal instances and level up, don't worry much about your gear then, start worrying at near 70.

Try your crack at Underbog and Slave Pens as the first trips on heroic mode, or mechanar/durnholde/botanica. Avoid mana tombs, arcatraz, shadow labs, auch crypts like the plague. Those huuuurt if you are undergeared and have no knowledge of what mob acts how. Not to mention the bosses there are killers.
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Postby spelltank » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:54 am

Rokh wrote:Just because ramparts was the 'first' outlands instance, does not mean it is the easy heroic everyone says it is.. Threat droppers, Mortal strike, some CC required... its a pretty hard instance for new 70s.


I'd disagree with this, ramps isnt a bad place to start with heroics if you have good CC. And if you dont have good CC, all heroics are going to be hard when you're first starting since the mobs hit very hard and you'll be hard to keep up.

Im not really sure about the threat droppers in ramps, been running it a fair bit with friends for badges and havent found them yet. For the MS, they usually arent too bad since they come in pulls of only 3, so if you can CC 2, which you'll probably want when you first start tanking heroics, they wont be very punishing and your group can burn them pretty quickly.

The mobs in ramps don't really hit too hard, i find that the lobsters in SP hurt a lot more than the trash in ramps, even the 4 caster and one melee pulls, and the bosses are fairly easy, except perhaps the last boss who can hit pretty hard if your healer is moving and can't heal you yet
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Postby Arcand » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:56 am

spelltank wrote:I'd disagree with this, ramps isnt a bad place to start with heroics if you have good CC. And if you dont have good CC, all heroics are going to be hard when you're first starting since the mobs hit very hard and you'll be hard to keep up.


And I'll disagree with this. Some heroics, like Ramparts and Blood Furnace, are primarily difficult because the mobs murderdeathkill the tank; others like Slave Pens and Steamvault are more about AoE damage, healers, fears and that kind of thing.

Both kinds can be tamed if you roll with a lot of CC, of course, but the former type is much less forgiving of a poorly-geared tank.
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Postby Valinora » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:36 am

Remember, that he is not level 70 yet. Some of you keep going on about heroics. He needs to run the normal dungeons, like I do, to learn them first. I have a 70 mage, but I didn't run anything higher than Mana Tombs with it, and skipped UB and SP with it as well. So, I am another with very little experience in the TBC dungeons.

Best thing to do is to run them first as a dps or healer, and when you get a good tank, watch what they do. That's how I have been doing it.

I noticed that I seem to get in a lot of pugs with people who are running them for the first time as well, so i don't feel bad then.

I don't have a guild, and all of my friends are gone except for 1.

check WoWhead they are starting some kind of series of videos documenting the dungeon runs for people to learn about them. I have not seen them myself to know if they are any good. I think there is only a Ramps video up now. Also, these are level 70s running normal style dungeons.

I would suggest try running each one at least once with one of your other classes, then read the boss descriptions and comments on other sites like wowhead to see what they do. Even with all that, you will need to run a few times to get the hang of them. It's hard for many to find groups who are in small guilds. I rarely see UB and SP groups forming. Everyone is so obsessed with heroics for badges now.

I figured I might wait until WotLK to start running those dungeons, then go back to the TBC later at level 80 just to experience the content. If you want the gear from them now, then I guess that is not an option for you.

Good luck.
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Postby Kelaan » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:21 pm

Wowhead's comments for individual bosses are usually pretty good; WowWiki's treatment of them is usually pretty solid, too.

One thing I've found lacking is that there's often little discussion of "the tricky pulls". Most instances have 1-2 sets of trash which are noticeably harder than the others, or which have potential to go bad. The Bog Lord pairs in Underbog, are one example. Ramparts, too, has some tricky pulls -- the group of six casters (LOS pull + consecrate = win!), followed a few pulls later by a room where if you step out, you'll often body aggro a six pack (dogs, warrior-types, and some casters) of mobs. (I have never been able to mark this one up properly; if you have a rogue or druid, have them try stealthing out there to look.)

A good group can handle these pretty well, but when you're starting out, some of the pulls turn into "Kill 3/4 of them, wipe, run back and finish the rest off." If you're all at early 60s gear and green quest rewards, this might be the norm unless all the players are top notch. This is NORMAL, in my opinion. Don't fret if that happens; 1-2 wipes for people new to an instance seems pretty par for the course. You might wipe several times on Nazan, though, as that can be a real toast-fest.
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Postby Peryl » Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:35 pm

Tiranknight wrote:The only way to learn is just by jumping straight in and starting to tank. Always survey the situation, see which groups of mobs to start clearing...always be mindful of patrols... look up/read up on the types of mobs and their abilities and then come to a decision of how to apply Crowd Control if it is available to you.

If you are really not that comfortable going into an instance for the first time ask someone else in your group if they are familiar with the instance and can mark the pulls. The first few times going into a new instance you will probably wipe a few times learning the pulls, and the mobs abilities... but after a few runs you will know exactly how to pull the groups, all the mob's abilities, and you will know the Boss encounters by heart and exactly what you should do. That will speed up your future runs considerably.

Get in... start tanking. Learning all the instances in Regular Mode while leveling up Helps a ton by the time you're ready to reach Heroic Mode tanking.


Agree with above. This pally is my one and only main and that's how I did it. There's really no other way. My only advice for normal instances would be to try to stay 1~2 levels above the instance you are tanking.

Items:

1. You can read up on strategy, but seeing it in person, doing the pulls, fighting the bosses is different. There's no substitute for exp.

2. Having healed a instance or DPS helps a lot with what to expect, but it's a different perspective than tanking.

3. Even if you tank an instance well, you still have to have a good group. We've cleared an instance with a certain group where we ended up working really well together and failed at the same instance with a different group.

4. Finally, stock the fridge with your beverage of choice. Keep it close. :wink:
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