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3/5 Reckoning vs 3/3 PoJ

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3/5 Reckoning vs 3/3 PoJ

3/5 Reckoning
29
59%
3/3 Pursuit of Justice
12
24%
Neither
8
16%
 
Total votes : 49

3/5 Reckoning vs 3/3 PoJ

Postby redlenses » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:07 pm

Which is a better bang for the buck for a tank in say Kara?

Reckoning for imprvoed threat and parry gib

or

PoJ for a extra run speed and spell avoidance
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Postby Doktah » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:47 pm

Reckoning IMO.....poj is crap
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Postby Shamora » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:47 pm

Parry gib is more of a warrior concern with their shield block only have 2 charges every 5 secs, compared to our holy shield with 8 charges every 10 secs. Also if your worried about it on Prince you can simply stop attacking during phase 2. Holy shield, exorcism, consecration, ret aura, and judging will provide more then enough threat even without you swinging.

http://failsafedesign.com/maintankadin/ ... php?t=5124 shows that 4/5 and 5/5 are very close to the same uptime and 3/5 is not far behind them. I feel that 3/5 or 4/5 is a good spot to get the most per talent point.

I had 3/3 PoJ at one time and really loved the speed, but ended up dropping it for precision. I have Boar's Speed and didn't notice too much of a difference. So really it come down to if you want more threat (Reckoning) or more avoidance against spells (Pursuit of Justice). Personally I like a bit more threat and it's nice for 5 mans and dailies.
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Postby Solumin_AK » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:51 pm

Well, I haven't had the pleasure of tanking anything post-Karazhan, so please correct me if I'm wrong. With the exception of Prince, having 3/5 Reckoning isn't necessarily going to get you killed in any of the fights in Kara because of parries. Most of the mobs just don't swing that fast, and those that do (with the exception of Prince) don't hit super hard. Also, I can't think of many fights in Kara where having increased run speed is going to be a benefit, and the 3% spell avoidance won't really provide a whole lot either. I'd probably say Reckoning over PoJ for Kara, but take PoJ over Reckoning for anything post-Kara.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:22 pm

Parrygibs are somethign I really don't worry about. From me. Your best way of getting rid of parrygibs is getting the dpsers to freaking stay BEHIND the boss.


And no, because he's not wielding a weapon doesn't mean he won't parry, mr fury warrior slamming gruul on the face just because you're too lazy to go back to your place after a cave in. He did attack me thrice in a row at growth 14 and it's your fault.
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POJ

Postby djellum » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:25 pm

I think POJ is good for the early life when your still getting geared. Threat at the early levels is easier to come by then uncrush/staying power. Taking PoJ lets you get stam to your boots instead of speed and every little bit helps when your starting out.

PoJ = 15% movement, 3% less chance of being hit by spells, and 120 hp (ench) for 3 points

Reckoning = 6% chance to proc 3-4 extra swings and an 8% (I believe) increase in speed from the ench for 3 points.

All comes down to where you will see the bang for the 3 talent points, but point for point PoJ isnt a horrible choice imo. the speed isnt critical but it is nice and most ppl find a way to get a speed increase if they can. Currently ive got 3 in PoJ but im missing my reck and wanting to try out SoC with a 2 hander and see if i like it for dailies. Im prob going to respec and go 3/5 reck and get SoC to try it out.

the speed is nice in lots of 5 mans if your still running them, Murmur, the fire chick in Mech, anytime you have to chase down a mob cause your puggin with crap dps and your taunts on cd...
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Re: POJ

Postby Shamora » Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:44 pm

djellum wrote:PoJ = 15% movement, 3% less chance of being hit by spells, and 120 hp (ench) for 3 points

Reckoning = 6% chance to proc 3-4 extra swings and an 8% (I believe) increase in speed from the ench for 3 points.


The speed increase to boots is 8%, but don't forget Boar's Speed gives the 8% PLUS 9 Stam. The way I've always seen it I can get speed on my boots but I can't get extra attacks on them. Also if your an Alliance Pally like myself reckoning makes keeping up SoV easy sauce.

Again:
Shamora wrote:So really it come down to if you want more threat (Reckoning) or more avoidance against spells (Pursuit of Justice).
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Re: POJ

Postby Endus » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:30 pm

Shamora wrote:The speed increase to boots is 8%, but don't forget Boar's Speed gives the 8% PLUS 9 Stam. The way I've always seen it I can get speed on my boots but I can't get extra attacks on them. Also if your an Alliance Pally like myself reckoning makes keeping up SoV easy sauce.


Yes, Boar's Speed is +9 stam, but it means you AREN'T getting Fortitude to boots, which is +12. So PoJ effectively gives you +3 Stamina, due to enchant priorities.

And while I can't get extra attacks on my boots, at my progression (Kara farming, working on ZA and Gruul), I don't *need* extra attacks. I'm holding threat just fine, more than fine, really. +399 spelldamage, checking my current raid-buffed status, helps.

And while I can't get extra attacks on my boots, I also can't get 3% spell miss on my boots. I took PoJ for the spell miss chance, it's not as much damage mitigation as Spell Warding (I'm 1/2 in that, too), but the spell miss works on ALL spells. I got lucky, and had two Ice Tombs miss me tonight while fighting the Skeletal Ushers in Kara. That's handy. To me, the foot speed is just a bonus to the real reason I took the talent.


It really does, like most here have said, come down to what you need more; threat or mitigation.
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Postby Jensaarai » Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:47 pm

PoJ makes me cry.

Reckoning ftw.
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Postby Frickit » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:47 am

Does anyone else think that reckoning can be risky post Kara? I dropped spell warding because I don't care about it and I put 3/5 in reck. Its been cool so far but we are about to venture into T5 land soon and I don't wanna get destroyed when I could have avoided it.

Is parry gib that big a deal? sorry I looked around and I couldnt find exactly what I was looking for.
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Postby shifttusk » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:59 am

Frickit wrote:Is parry gib that big a deal? sorry I looked around and I couldnt find exactly what I was looking for.


My pally isn't 70 yet but I really think reckoning can't be that big of a deal. I mean all of warrior and druid threat generation are parry-able hits and one of the threat buffs always given to warriors is a WF totem. I'd still think even with alot of reckoning uptime (I'm builiding to 0/49/12 with 3/5) we'd never be at as high a risk as the warrior.
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Postby Levantine » Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:07 pm

Pretty much the only two fights where parry gib is actually real is Prince phase two, and pre nerf Shahraz.
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Postby Endus » Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:52 pm

Jensaarai wrote:PoJ makes me cry.

Reckoning ftw.


I don't see why 3% spell damage mitigation, plus 3% non-damage spell avoidance, +3 stamina, and +7% movement speed (those last two being the effect of getting Fortitude rather than Boar's Speed) "makes you cry".

PoJ is a mitigation choice. Reckoning is a threat choice. I'm moving beyond Kara content now, and my threat's gorgeous, without Reckoning. So, I'd rather shore up my defenses, especially to spelldamage where it's weakest, rather than add yet more threat I don't in any way need.

Might that change at higher content levels? Sure. But that doesn't mean the talent is in any way "bad". It's a mitigation talent, rather than a threat-generating one.
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:10 pm

Levantine wrote:Pretty much the only two fights where parry gib is actually real is Prince phase two, and pre nerf Shahraz.
ANd nalorakk, which went through the same change Sharaz did

And to the guy above me, it's 3% spell avoidance. Not mitigation, it doesn't reduce damage taken by any hit that connects.
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Postby Endus » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:16 pm

Snake-Aes wrote:And to the guy above me, it's 3% spell avoidance. Not mitigation, it doesn't reduce damage taken by any hit that connects.


"Mitigation" isn't a game-defined term, and having 3% of spells miss me does mitigate how much damage I'm taking over time. I never meant to suggest that it reduced every spell hit; that's Spell Warding.

However, I would say that all avoidance IS, by definition, mitigation. Just by a chance at 100% reduction rather than a constant percentile reduction.

But now we're just kibitzing terminology, really. I never meant to imply other than how it works.
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