Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby aresius » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:09 pm

Kind of reviving a old topic, now not only there is that 15 sec ICD, we can get extra holy power from avengers shield. I was considering removing my eternal glory talents (not sure to what else yet) because im finding that getting that holy power is quite fast (2gcds).
did i miss something?
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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby Worldie » Sun May 01, 2011 4:58 am

Not really, the talent has become quite worthless for prot (and ret) right now.
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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby inthedrops » Mon May 02, 2011 8:53 am

Worldie wrote:Not really, the talent has become quite worthless for prot (and ret) right now.
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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby Treck » Sat May 14, 2011 6:30 am

Then again, what can you choose between?
12% seal dmg?
On a pretty regular fight seal damage stands for between 200-400k dmg, in total.
Increasing that (say 400k) with 12% gives us about 50k more dmg done over the course of a whole fight.

If your specced into Eternal glory, all it takes it 2 proccs for the whole fight, where you can use Shield instead and your well above the 50k dmg seal of the pure would have caused.

It also gives more freedom during aoe fights, if you wanna heal yourself, you might not screw inq up completely.
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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby theckhd » Sat May 14, 2011 7:07 am

I still adhere to the philosophy that I'd rather have more threat during the periods that I want threat, not more damage over the course of a fight. I'm generally running SoT when I need threat.

Also, those numbers look fishy. The seal damage estimate looks right (~400k-500k total Censure+SoT), but simulations suggest that SotP is more effective for long-term DPS over the course of a fight (see the talent sim, SotP is ~120 DPS, EG is ~80). Keep in mind that EG costs you GCDs, which count against your DPS contribution. Getting 2 or 3 more SotRs off doesn't mean you've gained 40-60k damage, because those GCDs would have been filled by CS/AS/J, all of which do respectable damage. The real gain from EG is the difference between SotR and the fillers, which is probably closer to 5-8k per proc.
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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby Shoju » Tue May 17, 2011 10:34 am

I believe that the ICD was added sometime in 4.0.6 or 4.1 I can remember prior to changing mains that I got a chain of 4 EG in a row while tanking Magmaw. I will see if I can find the parse.
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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby Awyndel » Fri May 20, 2011 11:57 am

Also keep in mind we might not cast WoG on the cd since we're saving it for emergencies now ( specially with specing out of the absorb ) . Sotp is just so much more reliable and constant damage.
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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby Treck » Fri May 20, 2011 2:30 pm

Eternal glory internal CD was added VERY early in cata, the first few weeks im pretty sure of.

I still dont see much point in swapping out of it, as WoG is most likely going to be used a lot more during progress than it is now, and Seal dmg is just so small that Seal of the pure is going to make no real differance.
Eternal glory will obviously not stand for much dps eather, but its a lot more convinient HP after youve just healed yourself.
Personally i feel thats works better, than increasing one of your smallest dmg components with so little.
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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby theckhd » Fri May 20, 2011 9:43 pm

I don't really see the logic in that Treck. EG is strictly worse for DPS than SotP, provided you're using Truth. And as you pointed out in the AT&C thread earlier today, there are rarely reasons not to use Truth. So for the vast majority of the time, SotP will be the better choice.

What "convenience" does it afford? Saving 3 Holy Power is irrelevant for survivability due to WoG's cooldown, so the only thing EG gives you is some occasional snap threat on a boss or add with SotR. But I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where that's likely to be an issue.

The fact that EG procs off of WoG has very little relevance any more. You're choosing between two mediocre DPS talents, that's all.
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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby Awyndel » Sat May 21, 2011 3:49 am

SoT is not a small damage component.
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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby Treck » Sat May 21, 2011 2:12 pm

theckhd wrote:I don't really see the logic in that Treck. EG is strictly worse for DPS than SotP, provided you're using Truth. And as you pointed out in the AT&C thread earlier today, there are rarely reasons not to use Truth. So for the vast majority of the time, SotP will be the better choice.

What "convenience" does it afford? Saving 3 Holy Power is irrelevant for survivability due to WoG's cooldown, so the only thing EG gives you is some occasional snap threat on a boss or add with SotR. But I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where that's likely to be an issue.

The fact that EG procs off of WoG has very little relevance any more. You're choosing between two mediocre DPS talents, that's all.

The thing i like about it is that you get a lot less of a DPS loss by choosing to heal yourself with the talent.


Awyndel wrote:SoT is not a small damage component.

Does SotP actually increase Censure dmg? or only Seal of Truth dmg?
Censure stands for about 7-9% of your total dmg, it can reach up to 15% on heavy aoe fights, but thats about it.
Seal of Truth stands for up to 6% of your dmg, and it obviously goes down as Censure dmg goes up.
Increasing that with 12%, is a very small damage component.
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Re: Is Eternal Glory still worth it?

Postby theckhd » Sat May 21, 2011 7:45 pm

Treck wrote:The thing i like about it is that you get a lot less of a DPS loss by choosing to heal yourself with the talent.


Except it isn't. Having EG is a smaller DPS loss than not having EG, sure. But SotP is an even larger DPS gain as long as you were using Truth. The cumulative damage from SoT+Censure more than makes up the difference.

Remember, getting to recast SotR immediately isn't the whole story. You're pushing back HP generators and fillers to do that, which has an opportunity cost. And that opportunity cost is significant enough that even using WoG on cooldown (best-case scenario for EG), it's only half as effective as SotP.


Treck wrote:Does SotP actually increase Censure dmg? or only Seal of Truth dmg?
Censure stands for about 7-9% of your total dmg, it can reach up to 15% on heavy aoe fights, but thats about it.
Seal of Truth stands for up to 6% of your dmg, and it obviously goes down as Censure dmg goes up.
Increasing that with 12%, is a very small damage component.

Yes, SotP increases Censure damage.

While 12% of ~13-15% of your total DPS is small (about 1.5-2% or so, which is in good agreement with my sims), it's still twice as large as the DPS gain EG gives you.
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