Eye for an Eye

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Eye for an Eye

Postby bomberaloca » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:32 pm

I am changing my spec to Eye for an Eye.
The purpose is generate agro to the casters.

What do you think?
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby d503 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:37 pm

bomberaloca wrote:I am changing my spec to Eye for an Eye.
The purpose is generate agro to the casters.

What do you think?


Get a better threat talent, and have DPS CC Casters...that's what I do :)

Alternatively, make casters your Skull and X and hit them with AS to silence them.
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby Gaxby » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:03 pm

The fact that 1) The damage has to be magical and 2) It's only a 40% chance to proc, makes it very situational compared to the all utility Improved Judgement which gives you better pulls/control over loose mobs.
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby Vort » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:44 pm

Those 20 extra yards of imp judgement don't seem quite so useful when there is a Big Bad striking you back in melee. Even the usefulness of 20 extra yards in 5 man dungeons seems excessive. I've been using Eye for an Eye now since 85 and it works much better I've found. To be clear - Eye for an Eye does NOT just proc off of magical damage. Whether this is intended or a bug I'm unsure of (but probably a bug). You will get procs off of any (yet to see one it didn't proc from) "Special" attack mobs can do, regardless of whether it is physical damage or magical. I've had Eye proc from Cleaves, Shockwaves, and all sorts of PHYSICAL damage specials. A good example is Foe Reaper 5000's Reaper Strike (effectively a frontal cleave with a purely PHYSICAL component) Eye for an Eye WILL proc from this ability hitting you, his Overdrive ability also causes procs. The proc can crit, and it will cause roughly 400% threat from the damage returned.

It certainly is a choice matter whether you want the utility of the range on Judgements or the random threat return from Eye. I have made my choice and I honestly prefer Eye > Judgements.
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby Gaxby » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:41 pm

Vort wrote:Those 20 extra yards of imp judgement don't seem quite so useful when there is a Big Bad striking you back in melee.


Those 30% extra damage of Eye for an Eye don't seem quite so useful when there are packs of adds swarming your healer in range.

Like I said with anything in tanking, it really depends on what you're up against. Improved Hammer of Justice for example wouldn't be in a standard tank spec, but on Heroic Lich King, a 6 second stun for every add that spawns is very powerful. However, does that mean every default tank spec should include Imp HoJ just because it worked so well for that specific fight?

Eye for an Eye and Improved Judgement both have their uses in different situations. The problem is that Improved Judgement applies to more situations than Eye for an Eye. Having said that, I do spec Eye for an Eye for certain fights where I know there are a lot of damage I can reflect. However with threat being a joke in the current meta-game and as long as I'm not in danger of hitting any Enrage timers, why bother?
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby theckhd » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:20 am

Vort wrote:To be clear - Eye for an Eye does NOT just proc off of magical damage. Whether this is intended or a bug I'm unsure of (but probably a bug). You will get procs off of any (yet to see one it didn't proc from) "Special" attack mobs can do, regardless of whether it is physical damage or magical. I've had Eye proc from Cleaves, Shockwaves, and all sorts of PHYSICAL damage specials. A good example is Foe Reaper 5000's Reaper Strike (effectively a frontal cleave with a purely PHYSICAL component) Eye for an Eye WILL proc from this ability hitting you, his Overdrive ability also causes procs.



Do you have any logs I can examine that confirm this? I've never seen evidence that it procs off of physical damage (even specials).
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby Katie Lynn » Mon Dec 20, 2010 5:49 am

Español:
Yo usaría Improved Judgement en lo personal... Especialmente contra casters.

English:
I'd use Improved Judgement rather than Eye for an Eye... Specially against casters.
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Sorry for the bad English.
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby Vort » Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:58 pm

theckhd wrote:
Vort wrote:To be clear - Eye for an Eye does NOT just proc off of magical damage. Whether this is intended or a bug I'm unsure of (but probably a bug). You will get procs off of any (yet to see one it didn't proc from) "Special" attack mobs can do, regardless of whether it is physical damage or magical. I've had Eye proc from Cleaves, Shockwaves, and all sorts of PHYSICAL damage specials. A good example is Foe Reaper 5000's Reaper Strike (effectively a frontal cleave with a purely PHYSICAL component) Eye for an Eye WILL proc from this ability hitting you, his Overdrive ability also causes procs.



Do you have any logs I can examine that confirm this? I've never seen evidence that it procs off of physical damage (even specials).


No logs yet, I'll get some when I sort some business out and actually manage to log on.
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby agetro » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:01 pm

Yea, Id personally have Judgement than Eye for an Eye. I've yet to have any problems, and I love having another ranged attack that 1) helps me hold threat while kiting. 2) picks up a loose add heading for another party member.
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby Vort » Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:29 am

Got a log for you Theck.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-n ... ?enc=trash
Shows my eye for an eye damage on the Evolved Drakonaar.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-n ... ?enc=trash
Shows I took 0 damage from the Shadow damage ability so it isn't proccing off that.

Hope you can work it out, because I sure as hell can't.
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby theckhd » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:09 am

Filtering the log with (spell="Eye for an Eye" or sourceName="Evolved Drakonaar"):
Code: Select all
[20:40:22.375] Vortimosa Eye for an Eye Evolved Drakonaar 5639 (O: -1)
[20:40:22.375] Evolved Drakonaar Blade Tempest Vortimosa 13558 (O: -1)
[20:40:22.769] Evolved Drakonaar's Blade Tempest fades

[20:40:46.798] Vortimosa Eye for an Eye Evolved Drakonaar 4537 (O: -1)
[20:40:46.798] Evolved Drakonaar Blade Tempest Vortimosa 12409 (O: -1, A: 1405)

[20:41:10.887] Vortimosa Eye for an Eye Evolved Drakonaar 5400 (O: -1)
[20:41:10.889] Evolved Drakonaar Blade Tempest Vortimosa 17268 (O: -1)

[20:41:12.903] Vortimosa Eye for an Eye Evolved Drakonaar 4847 (O: -1)
[20:41:12.903] Evolved Drakonaar Blade Tempest Vortimosa 14548 (O: -1, A: 1426)

[20:41:58.257] Vortimosa Eye for an Eye Evolved Drakonaar 4808 (O: -1)
[20:41:58.257] Evolved Drakonaar Blade Tempest Vortimosa 15998 (O: -1)

[20:42:00.250] Evolved Drakonaar Blade Tempest Vortimosa 14224 (O: -1)
[20:42:00.585] Vortimosa Eye for an Eye Evolved Drakonaar *7484* (O: -1)

[20:42:24.307] Vortimosa Eye for an Eye Evolved Drakonaar 5792 (O: -1)
[20:42:24.307] Evolved Drakonaar Blade Tempest Vortimosa 12872 (O: -1, A: 1426)

[20:42:25.505] Evolved Drakonaar Blade Tempest Vortimosa 14507 (O: -1)
[20:42:26.313] Vortimosa Eye for an Eye Evolved Drakonaar 4842 (O: -1)
[20:42:27.127] Evolved Drakonaar hits Vortimosa Miss

[20:42:47.652] Evolved Drakonaar Blade Tempest Vortimosa 15395 (O: -1)
[20:42:47.991] Vortimosa Eye for an Eye Evolved Drakonaar 5016 (O: -1)
[20:42:48.447] Evolved Drakonaar Blade Tempest Vortimosa 15592 (O: -1)

[20:42:49.622] Evolved Drakonaar Blade Tempest Vortimosa 15989 (O: -1)
[20:42:50.390] Vortimosa Eye for an Eye Evolved Drakonaar 5337 (O: -1)
[20:42:51.197] Evolved Drakonaar hits Vortimosa 13077 (O: -1, B: 8718)


The last one is a little odd, in that the E4E proc lags the Blade Tempest by a bit, but it's still well before the following melee attack. It seems E4E can proc off of Blade Tempest. The value is right around 30% of the damage taken.

Since Blade Tempest is channeled, it's probably coded like a spell, and thus can trigger E4E even though it's physical damage. What this probably means is that E4E's tooltip is misleading; rather than triggering off of magical damage, it triggers off of damage caused by spells or spell-like abilities, regardless of what the damage type is.
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby Vort » Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:30 pm

Like I said I've seen it proc before from the Foe Reaper 5000 in Deadmines heroic. His standard cleave like ability (reap is the name I think) and his overdrive have also forced it to proc. Similar to the blade tempest - Overdrive is a channeled ability even though it is physical damage it is proccing eye.

But I agree, it is misleading and possibly even a bug.

Cheers Theck.
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby Flex » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:14 am

I went 2/2 Eye for an Eye (one flex point and one from the crit tier 2 ret talent) and it accounts for about 1.5% to 2% of my damage in a run.
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby 2Cute2BeStr8 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:21 am

I went Eye for an Eye, 2/2 for Nefarian because I just thought to myself DPS race, it worked surprisingly well. The only thing I lost to get it was 1 point of imp judgment, and the 1 point in ImP HoJ that I had.

I mean I thought we did pretty good :D.

It did a bit of damage. I mean 200k is nothing in comparison to the 6.8 M that casters do, but every little bit helps. I just think its situational it doesn't hurt to have some fights, but it definitely helps on others. I'd say ascendant for one. I mean just plenty actually.
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Re: Eye for an Eye

Postby AriKT » Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:38 pm

I prefer Eye for an Eye also. Both Imp Judgement and Eye for and Eye are situational. You are basically using Judgement on cooldown in your rotation. Yes, you can change targets and judge that ranged mob, but you can do the same with Avenger's Shield. If you pull properly you can get the caster(s) to move from your silence. The only annoyances are hunter mobs that shoot from ranged, but they tend to be less dangerous shooting things so its not that big a deal. In most raid boss situations that Imp Judgement won't do much for you outside stacking some extra threat on the pull.
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