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4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Phonic » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:40 am

That's true, I forgot we'll be a few points shy of a full build, lol.

Well basically T2 ret talents are out!
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Feanorion » Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:12 pm

Feanorion wrote:With a gapless rotation, is GrCr skippable? I have to think that it really is optional now, if it even survives to Live affecting AS.

Flex wrote:Do you want to be running two prot builds with a focus on Single Target and one on AE tanking?


If need be, but such is not ideal. The question would become this: can we spend those GrCr points elsewhere that is more beneficial if we are not going to have places where subbing in an AS proc from GrCr would be substantially beneficial as opposed to the standard rotation?

Even with an AoE rotation, relying upon a GrCr proc to fill in a gap seems rather haphazard. It would seem that even if you have GrCr (and I suspect it will be highly likely that most will), you need to have a proc-less AoE rotation mapped out just in case, and then an extra AS would just be gravy. So if things go Live as-is, or reasonably close in regards to the parameters of this discussion, can we get by without GrCr, and can we possibly buy something more beneficial with those points?

seigert wrote:The question is: Do Feanorion want to make any talent build conclusions before we get any new actual data from PTR or beta?

For now, we even do not know, if this 3s cds for CS and HotR will pass internal testing and be pushed to public servers. Even more, we do not know, will GrCr be modified at all, modified in the same build, not modified.


You do realize that I posed a question, and that I did not offer up any conclusions? and that I mentioned changes maybe or maybe not surviving to Live?
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Petrus » Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:33 pm

I'd personally like to see Eternal Glory up to 3 points so it makes an even 5 in tier 1 prot, assuming everyone will always take SOTP. Maybe 15/30/45 or 10/20/30 but I don't like leaving half-open talents and I think I might want the Word of Glory stuff.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Flex » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:08 pm

Feanorion wrote:Even with an AoE rotation, relying upon a GrCr proc to fill in a gap seems rather haphazard.


I'd bet good coin that AS procs on AE tanking will be nice burst threat.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby seigert » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:44 pm

Feanorion wrote:
Feanorion wrote:With a gapless rotation, is GrCr skippable? I have to think that it really is optional now, if it even survives to Live affecting AS.


You do realize that I posed a question, and that I did not offer up any conclusions? and that I mentioned changes maybe or maybe not surviving to Live?


"Gapless rotation" and (as a result of it) "optional GrCr" looks pretty much as conclusions to me. Right now we do not have both neither on beta, nor PTR.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Sabindeus » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:51 pm

Feanorion wrote:Even with an AoE rotation, relying upon a GrCr proc to fill in a gap seems rather haphazard. It would seem that even if you have GrCr (and I suspect it will be highly likely that most will), you need to have a proc-less AoE rotation mapped out just in case, and then an extra AS would just be gravy. So if things go Live as-is, or reasonably close in regards to the parameters of this discussion, can we get by without GrCr, and can we possibly buy something more beneficial with those points?


Well, with CS/HotR at a 3s cooldown, it seems to me that GrCr is pretty much guaranteed to proc before AS refreshes every cooldown. Even with 4.5s it pretty much procced all the time. It never felt like gravy to me.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby steadypal » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:29 pm

is imp judge even worth getting?
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Flex » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:31 pm

steadypal wrote:is imp judge even worth getting?


Do you want the range increase or not?
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Huon » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:32 pm

steadypal wrote:is imp judge even worth getting?


yes in heroics, probably not for raids (depending on the fight)... its nice to do range threat when you lose an add.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby steadypal » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:37 pm

just sayin compared to hmm judgements of the pure or something else in prot...


the talent seems so meh when we still have taunt and as on a short cd...


wtb something added to that talent besides just range
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Flex » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:41 pm

steadypal wrote:just sayin compared to hmm judgements of the pure or something else in prot...


the talent seems so meh when we still have taunt and as on a short cd...


wtb something added to that talent besides just range


But the range is pretty awesome for all specs for various reasons.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Phonic » Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:53 am

Flex wrote:
steadypal wrote:just sayin compared to hmm judgements of the pure or something else in prot...


the talent seems so meh when we still have taunt and as on a short cd...


wtb something added to that talent besides just range


But the range is pretty awesome for all specs for various reasons.


And it's probably a better choice than EfaE if you want to get to T2 ret. Assuming you want RoL or PoJ
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Markoh » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:10 am

I can think of a few fights where imp judge would be helpful prior to cata. LK add tank and heroic halion for the very large taunt immune add for starters.

The thing to remember is that we are loosing the dmg component on hand of righteousness so any other range threat tool will be very handy.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Dantriges » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:21 am

Prettysweet wrote:Divine Gaurdian is a no brainer


And I can´t believe it makes it into 4.0.1 Well it probably does, it wasn´t touched for a long time in the beta builds, but it was a bad decision, when it was implemented and ever since.
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Re: 4.0.1 Talent Builds -- always subject to change

Postby Feanorion » Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:33 am

seigert wrote:
Feanorion wrote:
Feanorion wrote:With a gapless rotation, is GrCr skippable? I have to think that it really is optional now, if it even survives to Live affecting AS.


You do realize that I posed a question, and that I did not offer up any conclusions? and that I mentioned changes maybe or maybe not surviving to Live?


"Gapless rotation" and (as a result of it) "optional GrCr" looks pretty much as conclusions to me. Right now we do not have both neither on beta, nor PTR.


If that looks like a conclusion to you, you need glasses, contacts, a monocle, and possibly a magnifying glass. That was clearly asking a question with the supposition of the proposed 3 second CS/HotR providing a gapless rotation.
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