4.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:22 am

I've been using a WoG build for about a week, it's pretty impressive. I'd have to agree with you that it's the clear choice for progression right now. It's also great for soloing stuff.

That said, this talent/glyph guide is designed for a pretty broad audience, not just people working on heroic LK. If it's a useful resource for the top end anyhow, that's great. But the target audience for the builds section of the guide is the player who hasn't kept up with beta or PTR notes, or is returning to the game from an absence. That's the type of player that logs in and says, "Zomg, how do I spec now?" And risking gross generalization here, that player is likely to be primarily working on heroic dungeons and normal-mode raids or pugs. They might still be learning the rotation as well, which makes threat a significant concern. And our survivability is quite good even without a WoG build.

Players who are pushing content where a WoG build really pays off are much more likely to be informed. They might take a look at the build section to see which threat talents are optimal to drop for a WoG build, but they'll already know about the build and won't just copy a "default" build.

I'm not opposed to making revisions though. Do you think that instead of one "default" build, I should give a more complete description of each build and what sort of content it's tailored to? Basically, "Here are 4 different builds designed for different content," and then a description under each build that reads something like, "The WoG build is probably going to be the choice for most progression content, as it maxes out survivability in an environment where threat really isn't a concern."
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Awyndel » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:07 am

Situational builds make more sense then a default build yes. But it doesn't have to be overly complicated for beginners either, they can always pick what suits them and read just that.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Flex » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:45 am

in 4.0.3 A WoG build is a shifting of two points and can literally be summed up as "Take Eternal Glory over Seals of the Pure." unless a 7/31/3 build isn't seen as wasteful.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Phonic » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:59 am

Dunno if this has been mentioned anywhere but on beta, the LOH reduce CD glyph is now a major and reduces by 3min rather than 2.

Didn't read about this so it could be a bug?
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Tensen2 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:25 am

Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous (Threat, Not Recommended) - This glyph doesn't currently affect the AoE portion of HotR, making it an exceptionally poor glyph. If they ever fix that, it'll be a great AoE glyph; until then, it's complete crap.

Has this been addressed yet?

The Glyph states that it effects both phyical and holy portions.

I've not seen any updates anywhere to see if Blizz fixed this.

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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:58 pm

I tested it two weeks ago, and haven't seen any blue posts indicating they're even aware that it's broken. So presumably it's still broken.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Awyndel » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:24 pm

Do we have a focused place or thread we are reporting these bugs, since a couple of guys on these forums are probably known to blizzard. Or is it more a every man for himself sorta thing on the standard blizz bug report forums, making a thread for everything seperately?
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Neptuno » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:00 pm

Phonic wrote:Dunno if this has been mentioned anywhere but on beta, the LOH reduce CD glyph is now a major and reduces by 3min rather than 2.

Didn't read about this so it could be a bug?


thats a beta change... this isn't a 4.0.x thread; unless somethings changed, its a 4.0.1 thread
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Ambidexterous » Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:45 am

First off: great guide.

I've recently started reading up on the changes again, quit WoW a while ago and just now started to feel that itch again, so it's totally possible that I missed changes or what not. I read a few things that you describe different from what I read in the tooltips of the skills/talents(significant text in bold):

Vindication - Our boss attack power debuff has left Retribution and settled down in the cozy recesses of deep Prot. It's now only 1 talent point and triggers on both CS and HotR, including any target hit by the Holy Nova component of HotR. Lasting 30 seconds is somewhat irrelevant since we'll be refreshing it every other GCD. In addition, it returns the interrupt portion of Hammer of Justice that was removed in Cataclysm.

If I read the tooltip it says: Your Crusader Strike and Hammer of the Righteous reduce physical damage done by their primary targets by 10% for 30 sec. I'd consider the main target of this attack to be the primary target and would expect the Nova not to apply this effect to any of the additional mobs it hits. Is this correct, or does the current implementation of the skill in game apply it to all targets?

Protector of the Innocent - This talent is a straight-up survival talent that boosts the effectiveness of our Word of Glory. However, that's the only direct-heal we cast, making this talent relevant only to high-survivability builds for fights where you'll be expected to heal yourself regularly.

The tooltip says: Casting a targeted heal on any target, except yourself. This is ofcourse beneficial for your party/raid but I don't see the added surivability unless this skill also triggers if used on myself which means the tooltip is wrong.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Tensen2 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:57 am

Awyndel wrote:Do we have a focused place or thread we are reporting these bugs, since a couple of guys on these forums are probably known to blizzard. Or is it more a every man for himself sorta thing on the standard blizz bug report forums, making a thread for everything seperately?



I posted it on the bug forums and in the tank class forums (today). No response

Posted:
Bug Forum
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 26&sid=1#0

Tank Forum
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 4679&sid=1
Last edited by Tensen2 on Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Tue Nov 09, 2010 8:49 am

Awyndel wrote:Do we have a focused place or thread we are reporting these bugs, since a couple of guys on these forums are probably known to blizzard. Or is it more a every man for himself sorta thing on the standard blizz bug report forums, making a thread for everything seperately?

That's actually not a bad idea. I may make a consolidated bug report thread in AT&C this weekend.

Ambidexterous wrote:I read a few things that you describe different from what I read in the tooltips of the skills/talents


Many of the tooltips are wrong right now. I can't find the blue post at the moment, but Vindication was changed to affect all targets hit by Hammer; this is trivially tested on a set of target dummies or by looking at a parse (example, filter for Vindication and Hammer of the Righteous, you'll see multiple Vindication applications for each cast of HotR).

The PotI change hasn't been applied to live servers yet, as far as I'm aware. Things change fast enough on beta that I'm not trying to keep up with them in the guide - once 4.0.3 hits live servers I'll update accordingly.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby xstratax » Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:16 am

So what about something like 0/31/10 for a Boss/Single Target spec? I know GrCr is useful for interrupts, but the way it stands it's just not useful enough, nor is it reliable enough for me to trust it. I really wish it was a guaranteed crit or did something cooler...sadly GC doesnt really know how terrible it is, despite you guys telling him repeatedly on the forums. Oh well.

The glyph choice is more slated for a Survival fight rather than a DPS race, but glyphs are flexible enough now where you can change as needed.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Gaxby » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:38 am

xstratax wrote:So what about something like 0/31/10 for a Boss/Single Target spec? I know GrCr is useful for interrupts, but the way it stands it's just not useful enough, nor is it reliable enough for me to trust it. I really wish it was a guaranteed crit or did something cooler...sadly GC doesnt really know how terrible it is, despite you guys telling him repeatedly on the forums. Oh well.

The glyph choice is more slated for a Survival fight rather than a DPS race, but glyphs are flexible enough now where you can change as needed.


Tank trinkets have unreliable procs too. Does that mean people don't wear them? :roll:
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby xstratax » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:55 am

Gaxby wrote:Tank trinkets have unreliable procs too. Does that mean people don't wear them? :roll:


Indeed, but they also tend to have a more useful and reliable function such as more Health or Armor, where as here there is only a proc that serves to either add more chance to interrupt or more AoE DPS. For a single target fight you could ignore GrCr procs for all intents and purposes and come out the same as if you had them. My question stands, is it worth dropping GrCr for something like EG on Single Target?

Second thought, nevermind, that is a question dependent on the observers preferences. This must be the intent Blizzard had when they said they wanted spec to be something that isnt always quantifable. Good bye Cookie Cutter, hello Flex-tree.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:28 am

Yeah, that's basically the way I'm planning on speccing for raiding tonight. I've found that threat in 5-mans and raids is still ridiculous, so dropping GrCr and/or SotP seems reasonable. EG will also help with chain-running heroics, some of those bosses can be pretty nasty on the healing end of things.

However... it's already in the guide. :D Check out the "WoG build" in the "Talent Builds" section.
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