4.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby pfunkmort » Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:34 am

I agree with your assessment theck. I had it to use on HLK, and I ended up ret because of roster issues, but I think it would be okay there. One other note though - that quote in my previous post was from a ret's pov, so his sindragosa comment probably doesn't take into account tank damage (breaths).

Either way, after leveling an alt prot on another server to run dungeons with a friend, I think eternal glory is just about the most amazing thing I've ever seen, and probably as good a place for points as any. That's not from a threat pov, I just love it.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Kihra » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:40 am

pfunkmort wrote:I agree with your assessment theck. I had it to use on HLK, and I ended up ret because of roster issues, but I think it would be okay there. One other note though - that quote in my previous post was from a ret's pov, so his sindragosa comment probably doesn't take into account tank damage (breaths).

Either way, after leveling an alt prot on another server to run dungeons with a friend, I think eternal glory is just about the most amazing thing I've ever seen, and probably as good a place for points as any. That's not from a threat pov, I just love it.


I agree! Eternal Glory is one of the most fun talents I have ever had in this game. There is nothing like seeing it proc four times in a row on Sindragosa while one of your Holy paladins is tombed and the other Holy paladin has Unchained Magic and just being like "DON'T WORRY GUYS I'VE GOT THIS."

People who think WoG is worthless just aren't using it right. Maybe they forget about the protective shield... maybe they aren't doing hard enough content where healer throughput actually gets compromised. I've used WoG on shamblers to survive an Enraged hit with an absorb shield. I've used it on Sindragosa to negate much of the Frost Breath damage in the last phase. My healers in the shadow realm on Halion kept asking "Why aren't you spiking at all?" because I was absorbing the dragon's breaths with WoGs.

It is just so much fun and takes real timing and skill to use. As long as they keep us so far ahead on threat relative to DPS, we'll have ample opportunity to use it on progression fights.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Olen » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:22 am

IME the WoG shield is the only part worth mentioning, and its hardly big enough where I'd tell my healers to chill while I negate a tiny chunk of incoming from a heroic boss. What content are you tanking?

Yes its better than not having the shield, No its not that awesome.

If you're trading a 3 HoPo shield slam crit for something, you should be rewarded for the trade-off in threat with something good, not mediocre.

IE, the other day I offtanked HSindy25, so I just spent the entire ground phase healing the MT and managed to do 128k healing the whole fight. Hardly OP.

Were this the pre-patch wow, before our incoming damage went through the roof, the self-shield would have been more impressive. Now that ICC is much harder, the shield amount is not enough. It'd be nice if PotI heals dropped BEFORE the WoG heal and shield as well.

Having said that ICC and Halion seem to have been nerfed so maybe it will be enough.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby steadypal » Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:34 pm

is there a way to track the amount of the guarded by the light shield, and how much of it actually absorbs before the 6 seconds fall off? i cant seem to find it on WOL or on recount. i see overheal, but i want to see how much of that actually gets put to use
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Awyndel » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:19 pm

WoG is really not mediocre if you time it right. This is not something designed to help with healer mana or with overall healing done. It's an emergency button, just like a minor cooldown, or a trinket.

Ofc it's nice to use the absorb if you have a period of heavy damage. But for a predictable spike it could be better to use it afterwards, otherwise it doesn't use the PotI proc. Especially on 85, where we can spec into crit chance for WoG on low health. For now it's only interesting to use the absorb in that case, if you're EH is either just too low, or if you are going to build more holypower in those 6 seconds before the big damage spike, and use another heal after it.

If you look at emergency situations on low health, a 9-13K heal is really not mediocre. That's all extra health you have there. That's bigger then most trinkets, and on a ridiculously low cooldown.

With AD gone we no longer have the luxery of sitting on low health and not responding to it. It's just far too dangerous. And you cannot always use all your CD's on that. In 3.3 my AD used to proc all the time, but I rarely died. Our dk always made fun of it, coz he died a lot less, then my AD proced, because he knows when to time his heals, and CD's, he's just never on low health to begin with. Now WoG gives us a minor version of this, and if you use it right, it gives us a little taste of that power.

My advice is spec into it, get a healthbar in the middle of your screen, and test it out. Maybe you will like it, maybe it's not for you. But don't just sit there thinking it's bad for your threat etc, without trying it out. Because threat is hardly an issue in the situations where you would use this.

Besides, like I mentioned before. If you need threat just reforge some avoidance into expertise. That's most likely cheaper then specing into bad threat talents, and glyphing into bad threat glyphs. Plus it's just a more interesting way to buy it.

Only problem I have with it so far is, if you spec all the way, you will lose PoJ. Painfull. That's a personal choice, but I think with a boot enchant the pain will be less.
Last edited by Awyndel on Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby RedAces » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:27 pm

hey,

why does everyone take 2/2 "Improved Judegment" ? The range bonus is nice, but trading it for 6% haste ? No ! I'd rather have 2/2 Reckoning + Divine Guardian + 1/3 JotP than 2/2 imp judgement... (my specc: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#s0oZGMhcRddRRuc:scosqrzMm).

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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Awyndel » Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:50 pm

Well it's just one of those utility things that you have to try out to see it's use. It's mostly used to make the pull easier, and to pick up mobs a lot easier. It's an extra ranged spell. It makes kiting super easy. It's certainly not usefull on every fight, but it should probably be included into allround specs.

Remember you don't really need to give up reckoning or DG for it. Those are just too good. Normally you give up SotP, JotP, or crusade. Crusade rates a bit higher but neither of them are very impressive talents at the moment.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby econ21 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:24 am

Theckhd, don't forget to update this based on your latest matlab results. Especially the glyph of hotr, which seems to have gone from recommended to worthless (and crusader strike glyph now being elevated in its place).
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Metherlance » Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:28 am

econ21 wrote:Theckhd, don't forget to update this based on your latest matlab results. Especially the glyph of hotr, which seems to have gone from recommended to worthless (and crusader strike glyph now being elevated in its place).


The changes are already in the graphs. And in the conclusion. :)
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby econ21 » Fri Oct 29, 2010 6:55 am

Metherlance wrote:The changes are already in the graphs. And in the conclusion. :)


Are you confusing this thread with the matlab one? Because the third post in this thread does not seem to have the changes (or a graph), viz.

Glyph of Hammer of the Righteous (Threat, Recommended/Situational) - This glyph is actually quite potent, and turns out to be our best AoE tanking glyph. If you're in need of an AoE threat boost, this is definitely one place to get it. It clocks in at around 100 DPS per target, or 115 DPS for a single target.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Neptuno » Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:50 pm

Change needed: Glyph of Divinity provides the paladin with 10% mana since LoH mana is gone .: it's only useful if your oom while oohp or something (ie tell the druid get glyph of rebirth so you have hp at least)
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Drobent » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:49 am

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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:33 pm

Thanks for the link.

Neptuno wrote:Change needed: Glyph of Divinity provides the paladin with 10% mana since LoH mana is gone .: it's only useful if your oom while oohp or something (ie tell the druid get glyph of rebirth so you have hp at least)


Is the LoH change live right now? I thought that was only in beta.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Chicken » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:12 pm

theckhd wrote:
Neptuno wrote:Change needed: Glyph of Divinity provides the paladin with 10% mana since LoH mana is gone .: it's only useful if your oom while oohp or something (ie tell the druid get glyph of rebirth so you have hp at least)


Is the LoH change live right now? I thought that was only in beta.
Just tested it, the LoH change isn't live yet.
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Re: 4.0 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby lythac » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:03 am

The more I read about WoG and WoG builds the better they seem. For progression in Cata I personally can't see myself using a non WoG build. If I went dual prot would most likely take WoG and Heavy Threat build.

"Default" spec doesn't strike me as being default more like "Generic" or "Standard". To me the default progression spec is the WoG build.

Edit - I want dual specs not a spec for dueling.
Last edited by lythac on Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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