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Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby tanker38 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:20 pm

well to answer a few questions that i do know alot about my class i just came here to see what a few others thought 2 the gem thing never really thought about the agi i will change it today and exp cap ill be well over once i get my new chest 3 as i said in a later post the im not a mana sponge the healers even say i dont take alot of damage 4 i find DS/DG point less as a main tank cause imo to get the full effect outta those talents u need to bubble and you dont do that as a main tank ever

and also i dont worry about stayin alive cause as i said before i don't cause the wipes dps dieing does im always one of the last few up so there for threat is a much bigger thing to me cause we have dps in our guild that do good numbers and the threat to go along with that dps
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby 99sitr » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:28 pm

Chasey wrote:
99sitr wrote:heals in our raid are pretty spot on, when we lose a dps its usually from a total hit that wouldn't have been healable anyway, (blood-bolt splash X2 failure on DPS part to stay out of range of other people), or someone not standing behind a ice block on Sindragosa. I understand what tanker38 is saying, In our raids I know our main tank healers never raid heal because they dont have to, and unless you know that is the case for his raids blakk I wouldn't start dissecting his posts like you did above.

He came looking for advice, he didn't really like the advice becuase he is worried about threat more that staying alive. IF you and him are both staisfied with "i do fine" then why did ya come here?



chasey I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with what has been said. You seem just as quick to take the "I'm right you need to listen to what I say" approach. My comment was to the fact of what blakk posted on. Putting a post up saying "I do fine means you don't care" isn't constructive for the OP, and leads to offshoots for the conversation, and just isn't helpful all around and can be done without, which in turn is very similar to your last sentence you typed.

As far as me coming here, I'm new to pally tanking and I come here for good knowledge and research that others have done which I have found alot of here. I'm always looking for ways to better my ability to tank. That's why "I'm" here.

So here is a good question pertaining to this info, if the OP is running his spec and another prot pally who is the offtank is running JotJ, Imp Dev aura, and vindication, wouldn't it seem wasted for the MT to run those talents as well?
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby tanker38 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:33 pm

99sitr wrote:
Chasey wrote:
99sitr wrote:heals in our raid are pretty spot on, when we lose a dps its usually from a total hit that wouldn't have been healable anyway, (blood-bolt splash X2 failure on DPS part to stay out of range of other people), or someone not standing behind a ice block on Sindragosa. I understand what tanker38 is saying, In our raids I know our main tank healers never raid heal because they dont have to, and unless you know that is the case for his raids blakk I wouldn't start dissecting his posts like you did above.

He came looking for advice, he didn't really like the advice becuase he is worried about threat more that staying alive. IF you and him are both staisfied with "i do fine" then why did ya come here?



chasey I'm neither agreeing or disagreeing with what has been said. You seem just as quick to take the "I'm right you need to listen to what I say" approach. My comment was to the fact of what blakk posted on. Putting a post up saying "I do fine means you don't care" isn't constructive for the OP, and leads to offshoots for the conversation, and just isn't helpful all around and can be done without, which in turn is very similar to your last sentence you typed.

As far as me coming here, I'm new to pally tanking and I come here for good knowledge and research that others have done which I have found alot of here. I'm always looking for ways to better my ability to tank. That's why "I'm" here.

So here is a good question pertaining to this info, if the OP is running his spec and another prot pally who is the offtank is running JotJ, Imp Dev aura, and vindication, wouldn't it seem wasted for the MT to run those talents as well?



yes we have other tanks / healers even that spec into those talants so to me its wasted point to put into them since others in the raid alrdy have them thus letting me get more threat outta my spec which in turn lets the dps do more damage and the boss fight ends sooner
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby blakk » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:42 pm

the thing about that is what if the person bringing those buffs dies or has to tank another add then you? then you don't have the debuffs.
as far as getting use out of ds/dg most tanks use it without the bubble and just cancel the ds part to get the 20% raidwall from dg.
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby tanker38 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:47 pm

you can what if all day long what if a healer goes down what if a dps goes down what if ICC blew up what if dont matter at all
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby blakk » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:51 pm

actually it does. gearing and talenting for those "what if"s should be your goal. when shit hits the fan doing things in a certain way can save the raid a wipe or get that first kill
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby Chasey » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:47 pm

blakk wrote:actually it does. gearing and talenting for those "what if"s should be your goal. when shit hits the fan doing things in a certain way can save the raid a wipe or get that first kill

Agree!

@tanker,I understand what you are saying but here is the best thing you can do as a tank, don't rely on anyone else for buffs/debuffs.
We can play the what if game but this is real gaming world. If you fight the LK, you need 2 tanks, 1 tank tanks arthus the other his mobs, if the other tank isn't on your target you don't get his talents. FACT!
There are plenty of people more advance than you or I around on these boards that will agree with making sure you have the RIGHT build. Its never a waste to bring your own mitigation talents. BTW you take less damage, the healer assigned to you might just might be able to keep those DPS alive that are causing the wipe. And as far as being one of the last ones alive....you are a pally, its what happens. That isn't something you are doing right, its the class.
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby tanker38 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:55 pm

i personally disagree but yall can think what yall want i got the answer to the question that this thread was about and my tanking style is just fine the way it is
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby Chasey » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:07 pm

tanker38 wrote:i personally disagree but yall can think what yall want i got the answer to the question that this thread was about and my tanking style is just fine the way it is

Best of luck, I guess the old saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...

Sorry things like math, fact and experience got in the way of your way to do things.
Last edited by Chasey on Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby tanker38 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:09 pm

there are many right ways not just your way just cause some players may think they are better then others dont mean that they are there is no one certain way of tanking
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby Chasey » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:12 pm

tanker38 wrote:there are many right ways not just your way just cause some players may think they are better then others dont mean that they are there is no one certain way of tanking


Not taking mitigation talents becuase someone else might have them, taking less damage to put up more threat when you have the treat that pally's generate and blaming wipes on DPS dying is NOT the right way.

I'm out! Best of luck.
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby tanker38 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:19 pm

and like i have said before i take the threat over the other talents because we have dps that do insane numbers and they do the threat that goes along with it we got warlocks pushing 12k and up on fights and thats a lot of threat that i have to put out to keep bosses off of my dps
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby blakk » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:01 pm

there are things made to make their threat go away. HoSalv is something you can control and is very powerful. Tricks and MD are great as well. smart dps can do 12k dps and not pull off the tank when a tank is not putting out enough threat. 12k dps is not required from any single dps so the fact that they can doesn't necessarily mean they should. tell them to back off or wait a little longer and don't make it harder on your healers. this is the last post i'm going to put here. i don't enjoy talking to brick walls
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby Chasey » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:13 pm

tanker38 wrote:and like i have said before i take the threat over the other talents because we have dps that do insane numbers and they do the threat that goes along with it we got warlocks pushing 12k and up on fights and thats a lot of threat that i have to put out to keep bosses off of my dps


Hate to burst your bubble, cause looking over your acievements and you guilds progression, I think maybe, just maybe you think your guild is better than they really are. Thats not being insultive, but you don't have LK down on 10 or 25 man (nor do I don't take this as a me vs. you.) so from the stand point of you lock pushing 12k dps there are ways around that. You are a PALADIN, you should never have threat issue. PERIOD.
I should have stayed out to begin with and as blakk said, no sense in talking to brick walls.
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Re: Seals of the Pure vs. Conviction

Postby Koatanga » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:59 pm

Looking at the armory link, I see Bulldozer is using a 1.7 speed weapon.

As the Mythbusters say "well, there's your problem".

Use a slow DPS weapon with as much stam and agi as you can get on it. Almost all of our big threat talents scale on the speed of our weapon, with slower being better.

Swap to a DPS weapon and you won't need to resort to talent specs to keep ahead of your warlock.

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=47973 is what I use for a threat weapon.
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