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Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

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Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby angelflavor » Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:57 am

For this full Expansion I have kept 5/5 Benediction in my Tank Spec. The main reason is so I could use Consecration in my rotation longer.

Well I've decide to try the recommended spec from this site and only put one talent point into it and the others into Heart of the Crusader & Pursuit of Justice.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-shee ... ngelflavor
the 1st spec is my original 5 point benediction spec and the 2nd is my new one.

Either way running heroics It seem my threat had gone down a little. I am not as sure when I should and shouldn't use consecration with this new spec. I'm not sure if it's just me getting use to it or what. Any advise for this spec?
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby Forfeit » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:09 am

Even with a reduction in threat from using Cons less, you still shouldn't be having threat problems unless you come across a geared zealous Hunter or Warlock. I occasionaly have problems with a retadin who is trigger happy on the DS button.

I have also found in heroics when using my ret spec that tanks are not using marks, even when asked to. If you don't already have, key bind at least the skull somewhere so you can give them a starting target. By the time that one is dead you should have enough threat for them to go anywhere they like without having to work too much.

As far as using Cons when and not to, initial threat is all that matters honestly. Using it a second time is generally a waste of mana. Most trash pulls are going to last a matter of seconds now so putting it down a second time is generally just a waste of mana as its still glowing there as you are pulling the next trash pack.

For what causes the most threat of your abilities, there is a thread here. To save some time, this is the threat graph posted there:

theckhd wrote:
Code: Select all
Ability   DPS   Glyphed    TPS   Glyphed
ShoR      584       0     1502       0 
HotR      580       0     1492       0 
Cons      379       0      976       0 
JoV       258     283      663     729 
AS         70     140      180     359 
HoW       275       0      708       0 
SoV       445       0     1144       0 
VDoT      307       0      790       0 
HS        168       0      432       0 
Melee     744       0     1063       0 


I hope some of this helps.
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby theckhd » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:33 pm

There shouldn't be any discernible threat change, because you haven't changed any of your threat talents. In fact, if anything it should've gone up slightly due to the Heart of the Crusader debuff.

As far as when to drop Consecration, basically whenever you drop below around 25% mana and aren't tanking enough things or taking enough damage to regenerate it. In heroics the solution is simple - pull another group and tank twice as many mobs at a time.

However, neither of your specs have Seal of Command, which is an amazing aoe threat seal. I haven't had time to update the Talent Guide yet, but I'm going to be editing it some time this weekend to include Seal of Command in the default build for exactly that reason.
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby angelflavor » Sun Dec 27, 2009 4:39 am

True I did gain 1% crit with the way I respecced. But thats also 3% crit the dps gained too. That's not the true problem though.

Well my aoe threat has suffered. I use to be able to use Consecration during the full pull, or at least till there was only 1-2 mobs left. It wasn't much more threat, but it was helpful in to keep threat on 4+ mobs.

I just did spec back to my normal build. The new build seem to only allow for 2 consecration till oom and I don't take enough damage to make up the mana (even with DP). I can do 1 consecration per pull (and in some heroics that fine) But in the ICC heroic is where I found the most trouble.

I think running the heroics with my guild was another reason it wasn't working out. They have been use to my tanking since BC and the idea I have more threat on one mob over the other was a new concept for them too.

Maybe once my guild gets back from the holidays and we start raiding I will find the build easier to use. Maybe I will make my ret spec into a prot spec for this. Due to I am MT.

Edit: I may try SoComm It does sound interesting. Is it better than SoV fully stacked on 3 mobs or it the "cleave" effect better for holding 4+ mobs?

*tested* I tryed out Seal of Command in combo of my old spec and seems to hold promise. I am worried about remembering to switch it for boss fights, but so far I have remembered. I can't wait to try it out with my guildlies.
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby Aedh » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:19 am

I haven't had any points in benediction in like forever. You woudl be better off spending though points elsewhere. Like Theck said Seal of Command is sweet for AoE threat, and you can always glyph HotR to hit 4 targets.
I only use Cons at the beginning and that is because I have some lat problems so mobs end up not being in melee range so I can hit them with HotR. By the 2nd Cons unless its a really large pull or there are adds, I stop using cons and I wont use it for anything less than 4 mobs.
An armory link might help.
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby Chasey » Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:31 pm

I've never run w/bene in my build. Its a juggeling act at times but don't have many mana issues, I think the key to this is what "USED" to happen. You are better geared and so it the dps.
My suggestion, mark at least 1, hit the marked w/AS and then conc, HotR and you should be all set on threat. Really if DPS is still pulling off of you then its the DPS's issue then. You marked and hit that marked one 2x's. HotR and conc will grab enough attention for the remaining mobs to hold them w/o conc.

Not to be rude, but there are many many geared, knowledgable pally's around here w/o Bene that make it work. The 5 points you put there could be used else where, like PoJ, getting to the mobs faster helps, HotC or Crusade helps your AGGRO big time.

There are all kinds of ways to get things done, I just don't see thou how throwing CONC down everytime its up on trash is your main source of aggro managment.
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby angelflavor » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:41 pm

yea I know there's better places to put it, other wise I would never had made this thread. The % to crit is ok, but not having pursuit of justice since 3.2 is no fun. I think SoComm will help alot and I did buy the HotR glyph last night too. I think I will have to ween myself slowly off Benediction.
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby Aedh » Sun Dec 27, 2009 11:57 pm

Ya know I just realized no one asked if you are using divine plea at the beginning of your pulls?
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby Dantriges » Mon Dec 28, 2009 2:31 am

You have Sanctuary blessed on yourself?

Pull a hroup, build enough threat and go take the next one.

Should beenough, with Plea running. I pull fast enough that it doesn´t fall off normally or at least it´s ready when I need it again.

But yeah you won´t probably run full rotation, all the time.
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby Solare » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:25 am

Pulling with Avenger's Shield: 26% Base Mana

Following the 969 Rotation: 49% Base Mana

Having Cast Divine Plea Before the Pull: One Global Cooldown

Endless Mana Potion: 10 Runic Mana Potions and 1 Enchanted Vial

Never Having to Worry About Your 5k Mana Pool: Priceless
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby twistedundead » Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:06 am

Out of curiosity how geared are you? I expect at least decently, because personally I only went oom more often when I was undergeared and afraid of pulling too much if I was with my undergeared healer friend.

However, if you have decent gear, or at least you won't get your face blown off, then keeping up DP is important, without it you can't really do much except drink every other fight. I like to pull a group, and on the last guy hammer stun them around half life and pull the next group a little ways away, trying to get a quick melee hit in (using HotR if I have to) in order to refresh my DP on myself. By the time the mob is downed and the group is back I probably have lost at least a little health, around a quarter and between that and DG being up and my blocks through Sanc I am able to keep my mana just fine.

Chain pull man, that's what I'm sayin' :D Also, if you have problems with DPS going ape-crazy on all the mobs at once (I know, heroics random groups are like that) then just tab target, hammer, consecrate, tab shield, tab judge, re hammer etc. Or however you like to do it. Basically I don't 969 at first to build semi proper threat on multiple targets. Think about situations where it might be more helpful to spread out threat, like you said it's groups of four not single boss. Also the HotR glyph is helpful for larger groups, though not necessary, it's an added pleasantry I think
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby Lolpaladins » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:30 am

I wear 2 pieces of mail (intellect) dps gear actually when I'm tanking heroics instead of "wasting" talent points which would provide bigger benefits elsewhere when I'm Maintanking in a raid and mana regen isn't a problem

- [Hauberk of a Thousand Cuts] and [Belt of Dragons] which I happen to have for my ret offspec (7.2k dps on 25m Festergut as ret, yes many mail pieces with int are quite viable for ret).

Additionally I have a prismatic gem in the belt, and powerful stats on the chest. The extra 140 Intellect a pretty huge difference in mana regen, more so, actually than 5 talent points in benediction would provide (and they're great threat pieces to boot)

In pretty much every other slot I'm wearing Block Value gear (2 piece T8(soon to be 2 piece t10), 2 piece T9), putting me somewhere around 3.6k block value. Works very good for heroic tanking. Why bother dropping a consecration at all when you're flat out out dpsing most pugs without it before threat modifiers are even taken into account ;)
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Re: Taking Benediction out of my Spec (mostly)

Postby wantpizza » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:16 am

Build a BV set for heroics and fill in with some ret pieces as suggested... as long as you are crit immune.

Things stick to you like glue even without consecration.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Darkspear&n=Huor

Logged in my heroic set.
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