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3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby Njall » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:31 am

Kaory wrote:
theckhd wrote:There's no point in speccing Conviction in that build. Seals of the Pure would be more net DPS/TPS.

I'd still recommend picking up Vindication, PoJ, and SoCom instead of either SotP or Conviction though.

I dont need Vindication, cuz i have 1-2 retpalas with that. I dont feel i need SoCom, cuz I can hold aggro without it and think that SoCom is wasted talent. I also have no problems with running speed.
So, what better Crusade or SotP. I dont know, now. But I like my build.



Then why ask questions if you already know the all answers? There's a lot of discussion on the usefulness of the various talents here, SoComm in particular of late. SotP are, as theckhd and others will tell you, sub-optimal. Might as well get Crusade though that's sub optimal in many cases as well.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec Guide

Postby theckhd » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:54 pm

Kaory wrote:I dont need Vindication, cuz i have 1-2 retpalas with that. I dont feel i need SoCom, cuz I can hold aggro without it and think that SoCom is wasted talent. I also have no problems with running speed.
So, what better Crusade or SotP. I dont know, now. But I like my build.

Actually, you can ignore my comment about SotP. I must have had more than one talent build open this morning and been looking at the wrong one. I was looking at a 56/15 build (with 5/5 Conviction) when I made that post, rather than the 53/18 that your link shows.

Your build is fine as far as threat goes, in that there are no better options for single-target threat.

I still think it's worth dropping Conviction for SoCom/PoJ/Vindication, but that's mostly a judgment call on your part. For example, with two full-time ret paladins, you probably won't need Vindication yourself (though the usual "what if you're off-tanking a different mob" logic still applies).

PoJ has lots of advantages too, especially on Sindragosa and Lich King. Closing distance is a big deal on both of those fights, and it's 8% more than the boot enchant at the cost of 100 TPS.

Seal of Command is far from a wasted talent. It provides vastly superior snap threat on multiple mobs, which is relevant on several boss encounters. Dreamwalker is a good example, as it trivializes picking up the rot worms (which like to scurry out of consecration between ticks). The key is to look at it as a utility talent. You give up 20 DPS (~50 TPS) on single targets to pick up a talent that gives you superior snap threat and superior DPS/TPS while AoE tanking.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Banthon » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:23 pm

Minor Glyphs:

Glyph of Sense Undead (Threat, Recommended) - We don't have that many useful minor glyphs, so one that boosts damage by 1% is a great choice, especially in an expansion dominated by Undead.

Glyph of Lay on Hands (Utility, Recommended) - 5 minute reduction on Lay on Hands doesn't hurt. In practice, I'm not sure there are many situations where I've needed to use LoH that frequently, especially now that it's less effective as a personal cooldown. However, if it saves your raid from wiping even once, that's better than any other minor glyph option for this slot.

Glyph of Divinity (Mana, Optional) - Turns LoH into a mini-innervate for both the target and ourselves. Again, since there aren't many other useful options, this one is as good as anything else you can pick.


Great guide (been meaning to re-spec into DS/DG for ages and finally done it based on this :D ), but isn't the divinity glyph major?

First post so be gentle lol
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby theckhd » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:38 pm

Banthon wrote:Great guide (been meaning to re-spec into DS/DG for ages and finally done it based on this :D ), but isn't the divinity glyph major?

First post so be gentle lol

So it is. I'll remove it, it's far too weak to contend for a major slot.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Knuckls » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:19 pm

theckhd wrote:Glyph of Judgement (Threat, Not Recommended) - Very small TPS increase (~100 TPS). Since SoV is so much better, this glyph sees very little use. If you want a second threat glyph, and don't want to give up your AS bounces, this is your only choice.

Glyph of Avenger's Shield (Threat, Not Recommended) - This can be a slight TPS upgrade, to the tune of ~200 or so if substituted for every 4th Judgement. The loss of utility on trash packs and heroics is generally considered not worth the gain though, and we don't often have room for a 2nd threat glyph, so it doesn't see very wide use.


Thank you for the updated guide. I wanted to add that for paladins having trouble with kiting on the Rotface encounter, these 2 glyphs really helped me. While my group was learning this fight, I was having issues keeping threat on the ooze and it was 1-shotting healers. The AS glyph really helped my ranged threat, and had the added slow effect that helped me kite a little better. I also found that if I let the ooze get just into Judgement range, I could smack it and then run away also helping my threat. These 2 glyphs provide as much utility as you can really get on this fight while learning it, as there is very little value using the SoV or even DP glyphs.

Just my 2c

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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby golfinguy » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:34 am

theckhd wrote:Divine Sacrifice itself is pretty lackluster, though it can be used as a damage mitigation cooldown for another tank in your party We've seen a few cases this expansion where that could be useful, either as off-tanking (Icehowl, Twins during vortex), or on tank-swap fights (Thorim, Saurfang).

However, Divine Guardian is an improved version of the Raidwall we had in 3.2. With the following macro we have a raid-wide mini-shield-wall for 6 seconds:

Code: Select all
#show
/cast Divine Sacrifice
/in 0.5 /script CancelUnitBuff("player","Divine Sacrifice")

Note: Apparently the "/in" command is part of the Ace framework. If you don't have an Ace addon, you can use the following (just mash it a few times):
Code: Select all
#show
/cancelaura Divine Sacrifice
/cast Divine Sacrifice


Note that this includes the casting paladin, meaning that these 3 points give us an extra 20% damage mitigation cooldown that we didn't previously have.

For this reason, I expect that the three "discretionary" points in early Prot will be spent in DS/DG by the vast majority of tankadins working on progression content.

A note about the macro: I've tried using a simple /cancelaura macro, but it didn't work. It seems that the server needs to know about you gaining the buff before you're allowed to tell it to cancel the buff.

The macro I posted above cancels Divine Sac half a second after you cast it. I wasn't able to get it working for /in 0.2, so my guess is that the lower limit will be your server latency, since mine hovers around 300ms. If you generally run with sub-100ms latency, you may be able to safely drop that 0.5 in the macro as low as 0.1.



Someone hit me over the head here. I re-spec'd into DS/DG after seeing this macro - however, its not working for me. Every time I run it I get the "Can't do that yet." message. Tried both versions (even though I have Ace) - same result. It must be something extremely foolish, but I am currently blind to it.

Its not a conflict with a bubble, wrath, LoH, or anything. This I made sure of.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Lionnis » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:45 am

golfinguy wrote:


Someone hit me over the head here. I re-spec'd into DS/DG after seeing this macro - however, its not working for me. Every time I run it I get the "Can't do that yet." message. Tried both versions (even though I have Ace) - same result. It must be something extremely foolish, but I am currently blind to it.

Its not a conflict with a bubble, wrath, LoH, or anything. This I made sure of.


You have to be in a raid group, within range of the people you are using it on. I'm willing to bet that's the problem.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby golfinguy » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:54 am

Lionnis wrote:
golfinguy wrote:


Someone hit me over the head here. I re-spec'd into DS/DG after seeing this macro - however, its not working for me. Every time I run it I get the "Can't do that yet." message. Tried both versions (even though I have Ace) - same result. It must be something extremely foolish, but I am currently blind to it.

Its not a conflict with a bubble, wrath, LoH, or anything. This I made sure of.


You have to be in a raid group, within range of the people you are using it on. I'm willing to bet that's the problem.



Was in a party while testing - but not in range. Didn't think about that. Will try again.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby blakk » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:56 am

Lionnis wrote:
golfinguy wrote:


Someone hit me over the head here. I re-spec'd into DS/DG after seeing this macro - however, its not working for me. Every time I run it I get the "Can't do that yet." message. Tried both versions (even though I have Ace) - same result. It must be something extremely foolish, but I am currently blind to it.

Its not a conflict with a bubble, wrath, LoH, or anything. This I made sure of.


You have to be in a raid group, within range of the people you are using it on. I'm willing to bet that's the problem.

you don't have to be any of those things. what it does depend on is your latency however. a higher latency means instead of in 0.5 you may have to do 0.6 or 0.7 or even higher. it's more likely easier to just make the double tap macro

#showtooltip divine sacrifice
/cancelaura divine sacrifice
/cast divine sacrifice
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby golfinguy » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:04 pm

blakk wrote:
Lionnis wrote:
golfinguy wrote:


Someone hit me over the head here. I re-spec'd into DS/DG after seeing this macro - however, its not working for me. Every time I run it I get the "Can't do that yet." message. Tried both versions (even though I have Ace) - same result. It must be something extremely foolish, but I am currently blind to it.

Its not a conflict with a bubble, wrath, LoH, or anything. This I made sure of.


You have to be in a raid group, within range of the people you are using it on. I'm willing to bet that's the problem.

you don't have to be any of those things. what it does depend on is your latency however. a higher latency means instead of in 0.5 you may have to do 0.6 or 0.7 or even higher. it's more likely easier to just make the double tap macro

#showtooltip divine sacrifice
/cancelaura divine sacrifice
/cast divine sacrifice



As mentioned, the double tap macro had the same results - so I'm hoping the range really was the issue.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Lionnis » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:06 pm

blakk wrote:
Lionnis wrote:
golfinguy wrote:
you don't have to be any of those things. what it does depend on is your latency however. a higher latency means instead of in 0.5 you may have to do 0.6 or 0.7 or even higher. it's more likely easier to just make the double tap macro

#showtooltip divine sacrifice
/cancelaura divine sacrifice
/cast divine sacrifice


I'm sorry but you absolutely have to be in a raid/party group to use this, you are mistaken. EDIT: The range will only apply if you want people to get the guardian / sac etc. But you you can't activate sac if you aren't in a raid/party group.
Last edited by Lionnis on Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby blakk » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:08 pm

i use it solo all the time............
edit: i was wrong. i'm sorry
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby Lionnis » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:12 pm

blakk wrote:i use it solo all the time............
edit: i was wrong. i'm sorry


My apologies it will work in a party, but you have be in either a party or a raid.

EDIT: No worries, there is some range issue with it, but it's weird. In a party with someone within Dalaran it will go off just fine even if he is on the otherside of the city. But he flies away to snowblind hills and it doesn't work.
Last edited by Lionnis on Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby golfinguy » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:13 pm

So, I'm back to having no idea why the macros didn't work for me :lol:
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Re: 3.3 Talent Spec & Glyph Guide

Postby blakk » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:16 pm

it still could be your latency. you may be hitting the double tap macro too quickly or not having enough time on your single tap macro. try the double tap macro but tap it slower or keep hitting it until the buff goes off(or is the sacrifice not even activating?)
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