Seal of command

[Makaijin]

Actually as ret SoC is amazing for dailies. Most mobs are dead even before I ever get a 3rd SoV stack, SoC actually saves me a GCD.

Also the last I checked, if you specced JotJ your judgements actually proc SoC Cleave effect.

[Morlin]

No, I'm not trolling. It really is pretty useless, or, as Grehn|Skipjack said such niche uses that I think it's pretty much a waste of a talent point. Makaijin says it's amazing for dailies...though I don't see why since things die in 2 hits anyway...I wouldn't even use SoV for dailies, either. If I used Ret a lot I'd maybe use SoC on packs of trash, but other than that it's still not a very good talent.

[Morlin]

SoC is already crap for Ret, why would any Prot Pally worth his salt take it?

Seal of Command + Reckoning is superior burst and sustained threat to Seal of Vengeance if you're tanking four adds on anub 25 heroic (due to high reckoning uptime).

That spec would also pull ahead for Ony whelps for the same reason. That's about the only case where it's better though (high incoming attack rate from multiple mobs -> high reckoning uptime -> many SoCom procs).

That, pretty much. Pretty niche use.

Yeah I see what you're saying there but Reckoning isn't really a very good talent either, so I don't think combining 2 mediocre talents makes a great one.

[Grehn|Skipjack]

SoComm deals almost as much damage as SoV does at full stack, just without the dot, and no ramp up time. When you combine it with large groups of adds and Reckoning, you're essentially double hitting every swing for full damage on 3 targets. Ret especially favors this due to slow 2hers having a much longer ramp up time than our fast tanking weapons. If there's a trash pull of 4 mobs, and it would take 10 seconds to get a full SoV stack up on one, it's probably almost dead and the dot is a waste of time. SoComm comes in and strikes three targets for full damage no matter what, leading to very high trash dps. Prot just doesn't benefit quite as much as Ret, but in the right situation, it is unparalleled.

[theckhd]

Yeah I see what you're saying there but Reckoning isn't really a very good talent either, so I don't think combining 2 mediocre talents makes a great one.

Again, it's a niche thing. Normally, Reckoning is pretty crap. If you're getting attacked fast enough, it becomes half decent. If you're getting attacked 16 times per seconds, a few points in it doubles your number of melee attacks.

If those 16 attacks per second are coming from multiple mobs, such that you can utilize Seal of Cleave, then it basically doubles your white auto-attack damage and your Seal of Cleave damage. That makes Reckoning+SoC pretty damn awesome.

Unfortunately, it's still crap everywhere else. It's the sort of niche spec you might spec into for a particular heroic progression fight, for example, but not for your regular tanking spec.

The one exception I can think of is Heroics, which are very similar to that niche case (pull 3-4 packs with SoCleave, high amount of incoming attacks makes Reckoning uptime good, and the fact that everything dies quickly means SoV is at a slight disadvantage).

[Snake-Aes]

It's handy for mad heroics...right now my first spec is 53/18 with crusade, 1% conviction and DG, while the second spec is 53/18 with crusade, reckoning and SoComm.

[Grehn|Skipjack]

It's handy for mad heroics...right now my first spec is 53/18 with crusade, 1% conviction and DG, while the second spec is 53/18 with crusade, reckoning and SoComm.

Same, except both my specs skip Conviction in favor of Imp BoM.

[Morlin]

Hmm interesting...I can't foresee a time where I'd want two tank specs though. All I really ever do is tank, but I still like having a DPS spec for PvP or whatever.

[Acedonte]

I flipped a coin between SoC and 1/5 Conviction. SoC won. I really didn't care which one I got, it was a tiny bonus versus a tool that rarely requires use. Didn't seem like it was worth putting actual thought into...

[Makaijin]

Well another niche use, assuming it behaves like the old Seal of Blood, is to use it to tank Cult Adherent in ICC. Since SoB was useable on those spell immune snake mobs after Curator in Karazhan.

Maybe i'll pop down to Kara later, and try it tomorrow in our ICC 25 raid.

[Levantine]

1/5 Conviction or lolololololololHeroic Seal.

I know which one I'll be choosing at 80 (Command), but it doesn't matter either way.

[Chicken]

Well another niche use, assuming it behaves like the old Seal of Blood, is to use it to tank Cult Adherent in ICC. Since SoB was useable on those spell immune snake mobs after Curator in Karazhan.

Maybe i'll pop down to Kara later, and try it tomorrow in our ICC 25 raid.

The mobs in ICC work differently from what I can tell. They just check the damage type and then reduce it by 99%, they don't check what kind of ability it is. If it's physical the fanatics take low damage from it, if it's any other damage type the adherents take low damage from it.

[Shoju]

1.) If you think that SoComm is bad for ret, please Stop talking about Ret. SoComm is THE trash/Heroics seal for Ret Paladins. If you want to debate the merits of it further, please step over into the off topic forum where we can debate it to great lengths and the combined might of the ret paladins will bludgeon you and the 2 targets closest to you with it until you see why.

2.) I have it in my prot build because my prot build was designed first for soloing TBC heroics and then kept it when ShoR was shown to proc seals as I have used it in Heroics.

[theckhd]

Seal comparison is done.

[Kuma]

I am personally really happy about the change to SHIELD OF RIGHTEOUS CLEAVING. Had a blast in ICC the other night pulling 5-6k DPS on trash and upsetting a few of my DPSers. Hell, I was upsetting our DK tank! Feels good to be "THE AOE TANK" once again.