A fan made 3.3.0 talent template. ideas?

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A fan made 3.3.0 talent template. ideas?

Postby Bobily » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:56 pm

http://www.war-tools.com/t64689.html

Paladin changes:

Holy:
    - Divine Intellect increased intellect.
    - Unyielding faith now a 1 point talent.
    - Aura Mastery now only increases the effects of all auras by 100%
    - Improved Lay on Hands now grants damage reduction versus reduce physical damage taken.
    - Illumination now a 2 point talent. Offers either half or 100% chance to regain 35% of base mana of the spell cost if the spell was a crit.
    - Healing Power Removed.
    - Some of the effect of Holy power has been routed into Sanctified Light. Originally only effected the critical strike chance of Holy Light and Holy Shock. Now will provide critical strike on all healing effects. This means any healing that is registered from your action as well.
    - Blessed Life Moved to tier 6 and slightly improved.
    - Holy Guidance moved to Tier 7.
    - Sacred Cleansing now has Cleanse buff the target to increase their Resistance to the type of debuff it had just cleansed. this buff lasts 10 seconds.
    - Divine Illumination moved to Tier 8.
    - NEW ABILITY: Hand of the Blessed! A hand spell that increases the target's mana regeneration for 20 seconds.

Protection:
    - Divinity Removed.
    - Deflection Moved to Tier 1 Protection.
    - Anticipation moved to Tier 1.
    - Guardian's favor Removed.
    - Improved Righteous Fury Moved to Tier 2. Now a 2 point talent.
    - Toughness moved to tier 2.
    - Spiritual attunement moved to tier 3 and backed by Righteous Fury. It's Healing to Mana ratio has slightly increased.
    - Improved Devotion Aura moved to tier 3.
    - Improved Hammer of Justice removed.
    - Judgements of the Just Moved to Tier 4. Now a 4 point talent. The effect from improved Hammer of justice have been routed in, otherwise no change has been made.
    - NEW!!! Serenity returns what Sacred Duty used to supply before it had a previous stamina increase. So for 4 points you can have that increase and it's old effect, or for 2 points you have one of the other.
    - Sacred Duty adopted the effect from Divinty.
    - Reckoning Removed.
    - One-Handed specialization moved to Tier 5.
    - Holy shield has increased damage.
    - Combat expertise moved to tier 6.
    - Redoubt moved to tier 7. Modified to expend charges to increase block per buff. This evens the way block works in the new ratio changes and adds the avoidance lost. (Updated to allow a maximum of 50% block)
    - Ardent Defender moved to tier 7.
    - Avenger's Shield moved to tier 8.
    - Shield of Righteousness now a talent ability. This keeps it from being trained by other specs for it to be useless. This was intended to be a protection only ability and this makes it that way.
    - Touched by the Light now a 2 point talent.
    - Shield of the Templar no longer has its silence effect and it's damage increase has been returned. The original reason we removed it was because of shield of righteousness and now that it's protection only, it's back! It's been felt that Avenger's shield was overpowered in PvP with it's silence.
    - NEW ABILITY! Hand of the Pure: Reduces spell damage taken and prevent magical effects for 12 seconds. Like a Bubble, but for spells instead of physical damage. and only reduces not causes immunity.



Retribution:

    - Deflection moved to Protection tier 1.
    - Divine Strength moved to tier 1 Retribution.
    - Increased Improved Blessing of Might.
    - Vindication improved slightly.
    - Increased the movement speed increase on Pursuit of Justice.
    - Removed Elementals from Crusade.
    - Swift Retribution Removed.
    - Improved Retribution Aura routes the effect of Swift Retribution and has an effect itself
    - Vengeance now a 5 point talent adding 4% and 5% to damage..
    - Art of war now a 3 point talent. Adjusted accordingly.
    - Jugements of the Wise now a 5 point talent. Adjusted accordingly.
    - Fanaticism now requires the new Art of War and is a 1 point talent.
    - Sanctified wrath now a 3 point talent. Adjusted accordingly.
    - NEW ABILITY!! Hand of the Divine: basically a hand of Bloodlust on one person every 2 minutes.
Last edited by Bobily on Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A fan made 3.3.0 talent template. ideas?

Postby KysenMurrin » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:25 pm

Things that are not good:
1) Abilities that are overpowered in the hands of Holy or Ret moved into (just barely) accessible places (Spiritual Attunement, Judgements of the Just).
2) Removing every trace of cross spec appeal from tier 1 prot. Prot needs a way in for non-tanking specs putting points in that tree. This is fixed easily by swapping Deflection and Div Strength back to their original places.
3) Two mandatory 5-point talents in the same tier prot.
4) We don't need a bigger Spiritual Attunement. Most of us are doing fine with 5%.
5) 40 seconds off our stun is too big for a low tier, 4 point talent.
6) Taking a perfectly good 2-point talent (Sacred Duty) and turning it into two 2-point talents for a total of 4 mandatory points spent.
7) Taking away Shield of Righteousness from Holy. Holy Paladins have to solo stuff too, you know.
8) Taking away my silence. Boo. More seriously: The damage component of the talent was removed because that damage was rolled into the base abilities. Adding it back to the talent would require the base abilities to be nerfed again to balance our dps. Also, the silence was a nice bit of utility added to a spec that's usually pretty weak in PvP, as well as being a good tool for trash pulls in instances.
9) Adding new, unique buff spells (your new Hands) should never be done in a vacuum. As it is, it's extra utility that would pull Paladins a little too far ahead in game balance unless a lot of existing elements were nerfed to compensate, particularly your Prot and Ret Hands.
10) Not enough talents. Your merging and reducing of points in a lot of places have left the trees feeling sparse.


Not so bad things:
Your Redoubt idea is interesting, but the number is unnecessarily large (5x15% = 75% block chance).
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Re: A fan made 3.3.0 talent template. ideas?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:53 pm

That seems like a pretty big rejig. Have they even said they're considering redoing talents for 3.3?

Apart from that, I agree with Kysen's assessment. Whilst I appreciate you want to remove bloat from the Prot tree, at 60 points total, you're removing choice.

Not everyone goes into early Prot looking to tank, and the PVP/Utility talents have their use for Ret and Holy. The two current tier one talents give them inroads that are useful for them. What talent in your T1 Prot tree would be useful for a Ret Paladin? Or for a Holydin?
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Re: A fan made 3.3.0 talent template. ideas?

Postby Bobily » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:14 pm

Well, my initial idea was to eliminate the want or need for holy or ret to go into protection.

As far as reducing Talent points, that was too make up for the new talents I was adding. and there were some things that looked as though it'd be pointless to split into 2 talents because two effects came from the same talent.


Example: Hammer of Justice and Judgements of the Just. They both removed cooldown on Hammer of Justice by 20 seconds, so adding them together made it 40 Seconds, no real buff just getting 40 seconds at one time. Honestly I think just the standard Hammer of Justice spell itself shouldn't have such a large cooldown considering every other melee class has a rapid interupt ability and most have a decent speed stun.


The idea of moving the prot tree around to get such good tank abilities so early and nothing but tank abilities also offers low level paladins in 5 mans like SFK balanced tanking with Warriors and Druids as far as avoidance. Not that its that big of a deal, but it helps.

My idea for Holy was that they needed a tiny buff compared to priests and druids, shamans are also in need of a lil buff as well.

My idea for ret was that they need to rely a little bit more on burst damage. Blizzard did try to remove this but I felt that they went overboard.

Avenger's Shield I felt is overpowered with a silence in PvP when prot shouldn't pvp at all.

Shield of Righteousness should be prot only, its a waste of mana for holy paladins with the little tiny damage it does and with increased spell power with the seals evens that out, or at least i think.

As far as a hand for each spec, i feel that paladins don't have enough hands. or that they do have enough but most almost never get a good chance to be used. This would make Paladins more resourceful for raids. Boss encounters would be attuned for such changes of course.


What i'm looking at maybe to do for a re-vamp would be to move judgements of the just back down just a bit. Reducing spiritual attunement. Letting Blessing of Sanctuary go to all specs and available by trainer.

I do atleast feel that if a prot paladin put only 51 points in prot that he should have the rest to put in anywhere else and still had everything prot has to offer to tank with. ( including full spiritual attunement and divine sacrife and full judgements of the just and all those goodies) I feel that if Protection has no utility for PvP that giving them everything intended doesn't make them overpowered at all. I believe every tank should be loaded with everything their spec should offer. Just as any PvE spec should.

and no this was mostly just for fun.
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Re: A fan made 3.3.0 talent template. ideas?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:21 pm

Bobily wrote:Well, my initial idea was to eliminate the want or need for holy or ret to go into protection.


Then why keep DSac/DG in Prot? Theoretically, a Holy or Retadin has more chance to use that to reduce overall raid damage in progression raids than a Tankadin. Especially since they can bubble whilst doing it.

I'd also argue that with the talents you've shifted to tiers 2-3, you've made it even sexier for a Holy or Retadin to go into light Prot, especially if they want to PVP a little. All you've done is make them waste five useless talent points to get there, which is against Blizz design philosophy.

Dipping into the early part of a tree should be attractive and rewarding to other specs. The last thing Blizz wants is people specced 0/71/0.
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Re: A fan made 3.3.0 talent template. ideas?

Postby ulushnar » Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:31 pm

If I may say, you've got a very narrow, PVE-focussed view of Protection. I like that Prot can PVP a bit, and I like that there's talents that support that, and I like that you can pass over the ones that are useless to PVE tanking if you wanna make that your focus.

I also don't get where the silence on AS is for PVP only? I've been praying for something like that for two years to make caster pulls easier. Frankly, most of the community would not thank whoever took that from us.
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