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Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

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Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby snoweagle » Fri Oct 02, 2009 4:23 pm

Hello there,

I'm applying to a guild and am being told of having a 'weird spec'

My application and conversation is here http://www.faceroll.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=628

I dont mean to spark another divinity debate, but just wanted some external perspective on this as i'm not getting super good vibes from it but dont apply to guilds that often so dont know how normal this sort of thing is or isn't.
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby Worldie » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:14 pm

Explain him that Divinity is in 99% of the situations just 5% more overhealing, that's the reason for which most end-game paladin tanks don't take it.

He's semi right about SotP however: if you go that high in Retri, you'd get more threat from 3/5 Conv (or 1/5 + 2/2 Vind) + 3 Crusade
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby theckhd » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:21 pm

I'd say if anything his spec is weird.

He seems to value divinity highly, despite the fact that it's a terrible performer in situations like ToGC, where tank death is due to huge spike damage in short time windows (with large overkill).

Similarly inconsistent, he's got 2/2 SA, which is unnecessary given the amount of damage intake you see in ToGC. If he thinks he's taking enough damage that Divinity makes any difference at all, then he's taking enough damage to forego that second point in SA.

He chides you about being concerned about threat, but he has 0/3 Redoubt despite it being an excellent threat talent. He could drop 2 points in Divinity and one from SA to move there, which would give him a noticeable threat increase at basically no cost. And to be honest, even with good DPS players, our threat isn't stressed that hard in ToGC, which suggests to me that he's not very good at keeping up his 969 rotation.

In addition, his DPS warriors keeping up demo shout is a larger raid dps loss than moving 2 points from Conviction into Vindication.

It looks to me like he could learn a thing or two from you, or this site in general. Your spec is basically perfect for Ulduar. The only change I would make for ToGC is moving the 4 points from SotP into Crusade (with a 1-point Conviction chaser to get there). Northrend Beasts would favor the SotP spec, but everything else would be better off with Crusade.
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby snoweagle » Sat Oct 03, 2009 1:13 am

Hey thanks both of you for your input it's most appreciated.

Wow I can't believe I missed the redoubt thing, I guess my brain just filled the points in.

After talent sanity my main concern is what guild life is going to be like if I've butted heads with the GM over his talent spec from minute 1. I'm not sure how I feel about jumping through his divinity hoop for the sake of a successful trial but my GF and I are really looking for hardmodes and these guys are after both of our mains.

arrrg :?


edit: this whole thing makes me think there should be a dailyWTF for WoW
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby theckhd » Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:07 am

Well, you could just send him here and let him butt heads with us instead. That way you can play the innocent card ("These guys say that my spec is better and your spec contains some poor choices, and these guys are experts on tankadins").
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby Awyndel » Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:36 am

If he's a good tank and GM then he will listen to advice.

If you're a good raider you're gonna bring it to him softly.
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby snoweagle » Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:15 am

Again, cheers for the input...

Have been in their forums now and he's got internal posts ordering all tanks a list of gear to equip (regardless of class - I really hope they don't have any druids :( ), including the 75 badge helm and BoE chest which precludes me from t9 4set, and frankly I'd rather spend my time raiding than arguing with this guy 24/7 with my raidspot presumably subject to his odd take on gearing/speccing.

I've applied to a different guild now (Mutiny of nagrand EU - if anyone knows them).

I may still make a well reasoned post to him about talents tho, and I suppose the responsible thing to do is link him over here at the very least. :roll:

cheers,

Ham
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby Snake-Aes » Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:57 am

Bring him. Thecks' graphics will crit him for over nine thousand to the point that his only excuse to keep with what he has is that he is a control freak. Hopefully we'll need less than that to convince him, though your say on the gear list thing worries me.
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby theckhd » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:12 am

snoweagle wrote:Have been in their forums now and he's got internal posts ordering all tanks a list of gear to equip (regardless of class - I really hope they don't have any druids :( ), including the 75 badge helm and BoE chest which precludes me from t9 4set

That seems like an awfully bad idea. One-size-fits-all gearing doesn't work so well when applied to three classes with very disparate mechanics.

I hope he doesn't have any BV gear on that list, for the sake of any poor DKs in that guild.
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby Meloree » Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:01 pm

My instinct would be to run not walk.

Or back away slowly without making any threatening movements.
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby snoweagle » Tue Oct 06, 2009 2:13 am

lol

so yeah I withdrew the app yesterday... stepping away slowly making sure to keep my arms up and wide to look bigger...

The other ther guild I applied to just disbanded >< but I'd rather be guildless than argue with him as to why he should re-think that parry gem every time I need to spend some DKP.

I have, however switched to crusade for the tps, but kept the vindication cause I'm paranoid like that.

all in all having to argue my spec like that's been a good way to really get to understand it better...
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby Awyndel » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:01 am

You made the right decision.
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby legg1 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:10 am

Hi guys, Squidlips here.

I just sent a mail to Snoweagle as i never got a activation mail (Until now obviously).
So ill post this as my own reply instead of asking him to do so, as i wanted to get a few things out in the open to why i run the specc i do.

So here goes:

Quote:


-Feel free to post this as an update-
For my spiritual attunement, i have 2 points in this because i run alot more than only 1 instance a week. And even with SA 2/2 i run into trouble in i.e ulduar.
(Keep in mind, SA will not be a talent spent, once we got the players likeminded as our core of players, as we'd be spending 4/4 main raid nights in ToTGC and off nights for Ulduar (Dualspeccing Prot at that point)

For divinity, i find this quite nice due to the improvement of HoTs. 1 hot alone isn't a lot, but combined it gives a decent amount of extra healing done.
Even in between impales on NB, or be in random damage or swarm on Anub i.e, it gives a higher healing taken.
There is still other damage than high-hits going about.

For Redoubt, i see no need for going into block due to the sheer amount of avoidance i already have, and my blocked damage being inferior by far compared to other avoidance/mitigation stats.

With that said, i have specced a more universal specc than tunnel visioning the ToTGC bosses, due to the content we run while recruiting players like yourself.

And here is the line to justify it all : My threat is so high it is the least of our worries, let alone worrying about me dying even with 6-7 impale stacks + taking a impale in the face. With the constant sub100% health (or let's say, 95% of the time) i choose divinity as a booster to hots.

Given we still have HM's in uld to do, quite a lot of them, this specc i run with is quite viable with the exception of not having the ability to soak raid wide damage.

That is all there is to it. Everyone have a slight modified playstyle of the 'textbook' tank, and in some situations, or even occurring events (raids), being 'unique' might just mean more than being a broken fork *.

(*) http://www.about-personal-growth.com/im ... unique.jpg - Reference

Paladins who's well geared and a semidecent specc is the least possible reason for a wipe nowadays, as we are FotM.

And for vindication, we have a 100% attending (or 95%+) retridin specced into it.

So there you go, reason why it's not a forced view, but shared by some, and not by others.

___________________

I'll see if i can join in on the discussion later on, if you paste this as a update for me.
Unfortunately i can not log in due to no activation mail yet, but will hesitate from pulling the discussion further if you feel there is no need, or no wanting.

Again, this is just for discussion, rather than telling you how to play your own class/role, if that is how it seemed.



___________________

For the tanking section and 'one size fits all' comment, no, it was a effort to primarely gear up our two other tank (warriors), as was swiftly debunked by all except 1 chestpiece, due to set bonuses / SBV (Since SBV is just disgustingly good on warriors)

Cheers, Squid.


/Quote

-edit-
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby theckhd » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:39 am

snoweagle wrote:I have, however switched to crusade for the tps, but kept the vindication cause I'm paranoid like that.

Keeping Vindication isn't paranoia, it's good sense. Keeping the AP debuff on the boss passively means you don't need to rely on the DPS to do it for you, and frees up their GCDs. You gain more raid DPS by keeping Vindication up (and dropping 2 points in Conviction to do so) and letting the Warriors go whole-hog than you would reversing the roles.
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Re: Talent sanity check - guild app conversation

Postby Nikachelle » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:43 am

I love when Theck drops into a thread and plunks down all his knowledge. Makes me feel like we've got a mathematically geared bodyguard.
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