Need comments/critisism on my Spec

[Nikachelle]

well, no, Im just talking about the use of SS. they dont stack, and the holy paladin's SS is better than mine will be.

Ah yes. Well I don't shield myself, I just picked it up for the extra raid wide damage reduction.

[Selpiani]

yea, Im usually tanking the boss, so I dont know if using that while tanking the boss would be the BEST idea =P

[Jasari]

yea, Im usually tanking the boss, so I dont know if using that while tanking the boss would be the BEST idea =P

See: Mimiron P2, XT Tantrums, Thorim tank swap, Freya Exploding Flowers, Razorscale tank swap, Yogg P2, Malygos P2, Sapphiron air phase, etc.

Yeah, even as a MT Divine Sacrifice is VERY useful.

[Corpsicle]

While a Holy pallies sacred shield is better than yours, there is no reason not to have both sacred shields going somewhere in the raid - on an OT, dps, or healer. There is enough raid wide damage in just about every fight now that it won't be a waste to keep up as many sacred shields as you have paladins, assuming no mana limitations. When I'm healing, order of preference for SS targets is MT (when not a pally, if its a pally I often have them SS themselves for simplicity), OT, healer, dps. If you take the DG talent, the extra mitigation is not going to waste, it just may not be mitigating anything for you personally.

As far as DS/DG, Imp HoJ, Reckoning go, any one of the three is fine and mostly a flavor oriented thing. I'm experimenting with Reckoning, mostly because I loved it before it was bad, but I also quite like the DS/DG and DS/ Imp Hoj specs as well. I would never consider JotJ or Vindication optional - too many situations where I have not had one or the other applied and had to just soak the extra damage. Being self sufficient for debuffs is pretty important as you never can predict when someone will die or disconnect.

Nikachelle, do you go 2/2 Spiritual Attunement for Vezax specifically or for general running around? Do you find you have any serious mana issues on Vezax without Benediction? I'm in a funky mana spec for hard mode Vezax last week and I haven't decided quite yet whether to keep 2/2 SA and benediction or not just yet.

[Nikachelle]

Corpsicle - Bear in mind I'm a ten man raider so my answers may not mesh with the incoming damage you may have on 25 man mode.

I have no mana issues on Vezax. When I saw the slightest issue with mana (even with 2/2 Spiritual Attunement) I dumped consecration from my rotation.

I always run with 2/2, partly because I still run heroics on an incredibly frequent basis, and unless I pull 3 or 4 or 5 packs in an instance (which isn't always possible due to layouts) I find I can still struggle with mana, even with 2/2 SA, Sanctuary and keeping Divine Plea up. This is probably because if you don't require healing anymore in 5 mans, and the adds die before they can really hit you (due to overgeared dps), you're really not left with many options for mana return other than Divine Plea. For simplicity's sake, I just went with 2/2 SA.

I think Invis has a spec that includes 2/2 SA and several points in Benediction, maybe that could help you?

[Corpsicle]

Thanks Nikachelle, I'll look at Invis again. I'm doing some 25 content, but our 10 man is the only one capable of reaching the later bosses in Ulduar or doing the hard modes, so the majority of my raid experience has been in 10 mans.

I've got 2/2 SA and 5/5 Benediction at the moment which solved mana issues on Vezax mostly but I like how your spec looks quite a bit. Probably end up swapping back to what you have, though I'm still considering where to put the 3 'free' points.

[Jasari]

When I'm chaining heroics I keep a couple stacks of mana pots on me to chug when needed. One pot is basically and entire mana bar. Also, drinking will fill you up in a couple seconds so if worst comes to worst a 2-3 second break after a boss works to get mana back. Even with 1/2 SA, I'd say I probably use an average of 1 pot and 1 water per heroic. VH might be an exception because the waves seem perfectly timed to insure that Plea falls off each wave and due to the CD it can only be up every other one. Luckily the time between waves gives you a couple seconds of drinking without slowing down the group.

For Vezax (10man), I just pull him into the first couple Shadow Crash puddles and get such a huge threat lead that it's not a big deal if I can't keep a full threat rotation. I imagine if I were to do hardmode that I'd need to respec to 2/2 SA though.

[Nikachelle]

Yeah, I chug them when necessary to speed up things. (Usually carry about 40-60.) But it brings me right back to BC where I was chain chugging pots to get through heroics in a timely manner. I loathe drinking between mob packs. Cuts my productivity time down.

[Jasari]

Yeah, I hate it too, but at least it's not as frequent as it was in BC, where it was literally after every single pull. I can usually maintain mana on everything except bosses or places where mobs are too far apart that Plea falls off before the CD is up. And 15minute clears with a couple 3 seconds drink breaks aren't bad.

[Nikachelle]

I can usually maintain mana on everything except bosses

LOL I've noticed that as well as my gear has improved. You charge in on a heroic 5 man boss, blow your wings, throw your shield, get you full rotation up... then look at your mana bar and go "oh crap - it's empty." Twiddle your thumbs till you get hit/dodge enough and then the boss is dead anyway.

[Corpsicle]

So very true! I either cut things from my rotation, use seal of wisdom, or pull more. VH has to be the most annoying instance - mobs spawn exactly 1 second after divine plea has fallen off.

[Dianora]

is the DS/DG combo worth it if there is a holy paladin healing you though?

DS/DG is NOT for yourself. It's when there's more than 1 tank, and the whole raid is taking tons of damage. The 3 flavor points can go either towards Reckoning (threat), Imp HoJ (utility) or DS/DG (raid damage reduction when you're not tanking).

[fuzzygeek]

I can usually maintain mana on everything except bosses

LOL I've noticed that as well as my gear has improved. You charge in on a heroic 5 man boss, blow your wings, throw your shield, get you full rotation up... then look at your mana bar and go "oh crap - it's empty." Twiddle your thumbs till you get hit/dodge enough and then the boss is dead anyway.

This is why I don't wear "real" tanking gear in heroics. Comedy block set, on the other hand ...

Also, there's no rule that you can't pull a moving ball of violence into the boss room. It's pretty much required for 10 minute runs.

[Pizbit]

This is why I don't wear "real" tanking gear in heroics. Comedy block set, on the other hand ...

Also, there's no rule that you can't pull a moving ball of violence into the boss room. It's pretty much required for 10 minute runs.

That's what I do, from start to finish, the bosses are just a bigger mob in the ball;)

[Khayne]

DS/DG is NOT for yourself. It's when there's more than 1 tank, and the whole raid is taking tons of damage. The 3 flavor points can go either towards Reckoning (threat), Imp HoJ (utility) or DS/DG (raid damage reduction when you're not tanking).

is the DS/DG combo worth it if there is a holy paladin healing you though?

That, or divinity are your only choices for 3 of your talent points.
About sacred shield:
Even if holy paladin keeps SS on you, you can throw yours to some squishy to soak up Koralon Flame spin, snobold fire bombs, worms debuffs, icehowl frost breaths, jaraxxus infernals&other fires, valkyr aoe's & orbs, faction champs are all over the place anyway, anub leeches raid and heals for that=>every point absorbed is also Not healed to boss (not sure on that, but attleast reduces damage).

Point? Every single newest tier fight has significant raid damage.
You can ofc use SS even if you're not specced for improving that and DS, i.e. i personally went with imp. hoj+ 1/5 reckoning. Like someone said, it's flavour.