Blessing of sanctuary

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Blessing of sanctuary

Postby kywirelessguy » Thu May 07, 2009 11:19 am

So I posted this topic over in the official wow suggestions forum...

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... e0rSo1Jb#0

I could have sworn there was already a topic started here about this but I couldn't find it, so sorry if I am re-hashing an old conversation.

Am I asking for too much? I just would rather not have 2 "Prot blessings" so to speak. Even with other pallies in the raid it turns into a bunch of 10 min buffs so the holy pally can use their imp wisdom.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Nalyn » Thu May 07, 2009 1:24 pm

I think your idea is a good one, though I think you're trying to attach it to the wrong type of ability. The 3% damage reduction should be attached to prot's blessings, not to its auras, and specifically, blessing of Kings. Just rename the talent to "Improved Blessing of Kings," and change the description to "Your Blessing of Kings spell now reduces damage taken by 3%, and grants 2% mana on block/dodge/parry. Done. Holy casts Wisdom, Ret casts Might, Prot casts Kings.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Tubben » Thu May 07, 2009 2:19 pm

kywirelessguy wrote:So I posted this topic over in the official wow suggestions forum...

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... e0rSo1Jb#0

I could have sworn there was already a topic started here about this but I couldn't find it, so sorry if I am re-hashing an old conversation.

Am I asking for too much? I just would rather not have 2 "Prot blessings" so to speak. Even with other pallies in the raid it turns into a bunch of 10 min buffs so the holy pally can use their imp wisdom.



Add to the post, that they can also please lower the mana cost of the spell :-) 6xx mana for an prot pala buff. Makes me oom raidbuffed, after i buffed the whole raid.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Firehaus » Thu May 07, 2009 3:31 pm

While the Kings solution would be ideal, I think that it would mess with the models that the devs use to balance encounters. ie, having the entire raid buffed with 3% DR would throw things a bit out of balance. Kings is already an incredibly powerful buff, and I dunno if the developers would be willing to increase its power by adding BoSanc's ability to it. Not only that, but it has the potential to shake things up in PvP because it is easily obtainable being so low in the tree.

One of the things I was thinking about would be to tie BoSanc's separate abilities to Redoubt and Combat Expertise. That is, the 3% passive DR on the pally would be added to Redoubt's current effects, and the mana return would be tied to Combat Expertise (or vice versa if you prefer). This wouldn't shake the tree up very much considering that both Redoubt and CE are parts of any raiding prot build. They are also deep enough in the Prot tree so that neither Ret nor Holy can get them for pvp without giving up a lot.

But I don't know what you'd put in place of where BoSanc currently is.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby steadypal » Thu May 07, 2009 5:20 pm

easiest solution

move rf into bosanc spot in tree add 3% dr to make it 9%


put the mana part into the new sa talent
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby kywirelessguy » Thu May 07, 2009 7:12 pm

I don't really care much how its implemented, I just want buffing to be less of a hassle.

And disc priests bring 3% dmg reduction. Its up pretty much 100% of the time. So I don't think its availability by non prot pallies would be that big of a deal.

I'd trade the damage reduction for the mana return if I could just get it built in rather than cast, but I'm sure blizzard could find a way to do it without changing balance.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Firehaus » Thu May 07, 2009 9:52 pm

steadypal wrote:easiest solution

move rf into bosanc spot in tree add 3% dr to make it 9%


put the mana part into the new sa talent


Except that would have outsized effects on PvP because of how low Imp RF is in the tree. Giving ~10% DR for a 13-point investment in the tree? There's no way. They'd have to move RF lower in the tree for it to be implemented like that.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Folstar » Thu May 07, 2009 10:55 pm

Firehaus wrote:While the Kings solution would be ideal, I think that it would mess with the models that the devs use to balance encounters. ie, having the entire raid buffed with 3% DR would throw things a bit out of balance.


Errr, you can cast BoS on the whole raid now...

In order to keep the 3% damage reduction out of the hands of offspecs AND allow lower level prot paladins to have mana (which since yanking baseline SA I hear is a problem) they could...

-Change BoS to "Sanctuary", a passive buff that keeps the mana regen of BoS AND rolls into it the effect of SA (two points- 1%/5%, 2%10%)
-Replace SA with "Improved BoK" which would add a 3% damage reduction to BoK

This would:
-reduce the 3 "wasted" points early in prot to 2
-give low level tankadins back the mana regen they had pre 3.1
-make tankadins more appealing in raids (instead of the first tank to be asked to offspec, which seems to be the case now- though that could just be my guild, server)
-balance the pally trees (one imp aura/blessing each)
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby steadypal » Fri May 08, 2009 1:13 am

Firehaus wrote:
steadypal wrote:easiest solution

move rf into bosanc spot in tree add 3% dr to make it 9%


put the mana part into the new sa talent


Except that would have outsized effects on PvP because of how low Imp RF is in the tree. Giving ~10% DR for a 13-point investment in the tree? There's no way. They'd have to move RF lower in the tree for it to be implemented like that.



did you like quote me without even reading?

put RF where bosanc was/is in the tree?
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Funtodin » Fri May 08, 2009 11:42 am

Low level pally tanks were completely annihilated by the SA nerf. They have none of the 3 abilities prots use as mana regen: SA, DP and BoS. Unless one tries to tank with a ghetto SoB glyph prot/ret spec...

They should have just switched places by having BoS baseline passive and SA the 21-point talent. That way a ret or prot would be able to tank and have *some* kind of mana regen while not having undesired side-effects as SA had before since healers and dps are not supposed to get hit in first place and wouldn't benefit from it.

Maybe even have the 2 points SA as it is now replaced by improved SA or BoS where you get the 3% DR as passive or built into kings as ppl have suggested.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Wolvar » Fri May 08, 2009 2:32 pm

I dunno why you'd spec protection at low level. You can tank dungeons as RET at levels below BOS.

I kinda like that we actually have to pay attention to mana now and make choices as to which blessing to use depending on the number of pallies and the content.


Personally, I think that greater blessings should affect all of a specific class and last 60 min and the regular blessings should be individual buffs that last 30 min.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby badgermonkey » Sat May 09, 2009 6:02 am

Wolvar wrote:
Personally, I think that greater blessings should affect all of a specific class and last 60 min and the regular blessings should be individual buffs that last 30 min.



I kinda agree here. I've seen 10 minute buffs run out on bosses like Yogg-Saron, because after buffing, then regaining mana, and a bit of dicking around, your buff is normally already down to 7ish minutes. If it's going to tae 9-10 minutes to down Yogg, anyone who didn't get a Greater Blessing loses it.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Venoseth » Sun May 10, 2009 12:27 pm

How about making SA instead "Personal Blessing" that gives the effects of 3% DR and mana on block/dodge/parry to any blessing the Paladin casts on themselves? Would solve all of the problems, and only nerf us to not providing a guaranteed 3% DR to people when your Disc Priest is slacking (or not in the raid).

Makes sense tho', in a 5 man, you're far from guaranteed another person who can provide the 3% DR to everyone. You're also not guaranteed a b-shout or BoWis totem, so unless 3/5 members of your party are Paladins (another unlikely situation) not many people are getting Sanc anyway.

Idk about you guys' 25 mans, but it only requires 2 Pallies, and that's for Kings / Sanc, and as said previously, Disc Priests can keep almost a full uptime on the DR.

So them changing the buff to be self-only let's them predict Paladins having 100% uptime on their mana-return mechanism. Making it easier to predict Paladin incoming damage. This being the example of 1 Paladin in a 5 or 10-man.


So, TL;DR - Make BoSanctuary into a talent that changes all of our self-cast blessings to give us the same effect to make things easier for Paladins when you have no other Paladin around, and doesn't change anything when you're sure to have a few (and a Disc Priest, etcetera).
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby kywirelessguy » Mon May 11, 2009 7:59 am

Ugh! I hate this system. I consistently raid with 1 pally (myself) or 2 pallies (myself and holy pally)

So if its me, I get no sanct obviously. I'm going to use kings in most cases. Is this part of Blizzards design philosophy? In heroics I could give a shit less, but in raids should a solo protection paladin have access to Sanct AND Kings or is that considered Overpowered?

Its almost worse with my Holy Pally in the raid. He has imp BoW so he's going to use that over the shammy totem.

So I cast 30 min kings on pally's, then 10 min sanct on myself, he casts 30 min wisdom then 10 min kings on me.

I'm not worried about 10 min sanct, I can handle that, I know pretty quick if its missing, especially on trash, but my Holy pally is about as dependable as the weather. I have to whisper him before every pull to reapply 10 min kings.

This probably goes in the frustration thread, and I haven't really said anything new, its just a pain in my ass and I needed to vent. Got 25 hodir's shield last night :( Expertise FTL.
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Re: Blessing of sanctuary

Postby Nikachelle » Mon May 11, 2009 8:08 am

kywirelessguy wrote:I'm not worried about 10 min sanct, I can handle that, I know pretty quick if its missing, especially on trash, but my Holy pally is about as dependable as the weather. I have to whisper him before every pull to reapply 10 min kings.


Doesn't have Pally Power, does he?
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