Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

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Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby Kup » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:59 am

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZE0tAbuMGsIufdto

I still don't see how the 15% increase in Seals of the Pure doesn't outweigh what people are putting in ret. And again I may be wrong but aren't we facing a bunch of giants in ulduar? Which aren't effected by Crusade.
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby mconeone » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:00 am

already answered. read the forum before posting.

If you're using SoV, SotP does piddly damage. Crusade still gives you 1% damage regardless of species.
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby Jasari » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:04 am

I would normally make a very condescending and sarcastic reply to a question like this but in an effort to be more polite, here ya go:

Conviction beats out SotP at about Naxx 25 gear levels and it continues to scale better. The math is available in theck's thread over in the advanced training forum.

And Crusade gives +3% damage against everything and an additional +3% damage against the "special" types (undead, human, something else?). So even against the giants in Ulduar it's a big DPS boost.
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby Kup » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:08 am

Thank you for the quick answer. And for all the people who feel they have to say "read the forums before you post." Please examine the scope of what you are asking people to do. I browsed what looked to be the most popular 3.1 spec threads before posting and didn't see the answer I was looking for, so I asked. You're right, the answer was probably somewhere in the hundreds of hours of reading somewhere on these forums, I got what I looking for in 5 minutes. Sorry I don't have endless hours to read everything here. Again thank you for the answer though.
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby mconeone » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:10 am

The problem that makes it annoying is that this very same discussion went on today in the 3.1 Talent Build Conclusion thread here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22429&start=0 on the very first page. Look for the rusty doorknobs :P
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby Jasari » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:12 am

Reading a talent tool tip takes about 3 seconds. You could've answered your Crusade question that way.

As for the SotP vs Crusade debate, a simple search for: SotP vs Conviction would've gotten you your answer pretty quickly.
search.php?keywords=SotP+vs+Conviction&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

You would've had to wade though a little discussion about rusty doorknobs being lodging in people's asses, but on the first page alone there are several posts explaining that Conviction scales better and passes SotP at ilevel 213ish gear.
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:14 am

Kup wrote:Thank you for the quick answer. And for all the people who feel they have to say "read the forums before you post." Please examine the scope of what you are asking people to do. I browsed what looked to be the most popular 3.1 spec threads before posting and didn't see the answer I was looking for, so I asked. You're right, the answer was probably somewhere in the hundreds of hours of reading somewhere on these forums, I got what I looking for in 5 minutes. Sorry I don't have endless hours to read everything here. Again thank you for the answer though.

Actually, if you went to Theck's thread in Advanced Training(that's a sticky, btw), you would have found the answer in the table of contents on the first page.
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... 59#p414559
To maximize threat, fill these talents in the following order: 1HWS > TbtL > Crusade > Conviction > SotP > Reckoning. If you're fighting Crusade-friendly mobs only, you can prioritize Crusade above TbtL.
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby Kup » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:24 am

Gotcha, so for a talent spec question I guess I should have spent time browsing all forums besides the TALENT SPEC forum. As for the tooltip, I misread it. And I did browse the first 2 pages of the 3.1 Spec thread and must have missed it. Again, I do appreciate those of you that are helpful.
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby Jasari » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:30 am

Kup wrote:Gotcha, so for a talent spec question I guess I should have spent time browsing all forums besides the TALENT SPEC forum. As for the tooltip, I misread it. And I did browse the first 2 pages of the 3.1 Spec thread and must have missed it. Again, I do appreciate those of you that are helpful.
\
Your questions were answered in the "3.1 Talent Build Conclusion" thread in this forum, right below this thread last time I looked. It even has a very straightforward title and would probably be the 2nd place I'd look if I had your questions. The first place being the "search" function and typing int he words: "SotP vs Conviction" and finding my answer right away.

It's ok to ask questions, but don't act like it would've been difficult to find the answers for yourself.
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby Kup » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:34 am

My comments were directed at Shipjack, not you. I did browse the thread you mentioned and was still unsatisfied. Please remember that the amount of general information one would have to sort through to answer one specific question is an incredible amount.

Anyways, I'm out for now. Again thank you very much for the help! Best of luck in Ulduar tonight! (if servers are playable)
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby theckhd » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:36 am

Kup wrote:Gotcha, so for a talent spec question I guess I should have spent time browsing all forums besides the TALENT SPEC forum. As for the tooltip, I misread it. And I did browse the first 2 pages of the 3.1 Spec thread and must have missed it. Again, I do appreciate those of you that are helpful.

To be fair, I wouldn't expect you to go to the Advanced Training forum for information on Talent specs either. ;)

However, if you're interested in optimizing your build, then the Advanced Training forum does have a wealth of knowledge in it, including my sticky thread. If all the math makes your eyes glaze over, the pretty graphs and "TLDR summary" at the end of each relevant post are usually clear enough to understand the results.

I've tried to keep the table of contents up to date and easy to understand, so that people can find the information they're looking for. For example:
Theck wrote:


The first link there gives a very detailed breakdown of how much threat you get from each talent point spent, and the "TLDR summary" at the end of the post gives exactly the information you're looking for:
Theck wrote:To maximize threat, fill these talents in the following order: 1HWS > TbtL > Crusade > Conviction > SotP > Reckoning. If you're fighting Crusade-friendly mobs only, you can prioritize Crusade above TbtL.


While you wouldn't necessarily know to go to my thread in the first place, it's been linked a lot in the Talent Spec forum in the past week or so, including the thread you perused earlier today. Mostly because people have been discussing similar questions to the one you asked.
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:39 am

I'm not really sure why we even HAVE a talent spec forum anymore. Anytime we need to break down talents in any depth, it's done in one of the Training sections.
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby theckhd » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:28 pm

Grehn|Skipjack wrote:I'm not really sure why we even HAVE a talent spec forum anymore. Anytime we need to break down talents in any depth, it's done in one of the Training sections.

Eh, I can see reason enough for the distinction. Advanced Training is where we play with numbers and figure out exactly what each talent does. Talent Spec is where we take that information and do something practical with it (like discuss whether x% amount of threat is better or worse than y% of something else).

It's a lot like Physics and Engineering in that way. ;)
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Re: Someone please tell me whay this spec is broken?

Postby Grehn|Skipjack » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:30 pm

Point. You has it. I guess we should work on putting all the confirmed 3.1 talent theorycraft in a sticky.
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