1/2 SA spec... what about 1/2 GBtL?

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1/2 SA spec... what about 1/2 GBtL?

Postby Artos » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:13 pm

So, I've been playing around with 3.1 talent specs, and I saw the discussion on only taking 1 point in Spiritual Attunement.

My question is, if every hit has a 50% chance to refresh Divine Plea with one point in Guarded By the Light, wouldn't that still give you an effective 100% uptime? Between auto attacks, hammer, shield, etc. I would think you would need to have mathematically diabolic odds to not refresh it.

So, if 1 point of spiritual attunement is enough, and 1 point of GBtL is enough, would that free up an extra point? We could do 52/19, or some other combination like
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9704

Or, am I smoking crack? Is the extra 3% magic reduction critical?
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Postby Gamingdevil » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:17 pm

When you are MT'ing, yes it should be enough to keep up DP, when you're offtanking and running around picking up adds, there's a very real probability of it falling of.

Also, while the 3% damage reduction is not critical, it's still damage reduction and as a tank, we should be picking it up.
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Postby Venoseth » Sun Mar 22, 2009 5:49 am

Seems to hold water. If so, the spec I'll be using is this. (The two points in Imp. HoJ being place-holders for Divine Guardian, assuming it'll be the talent that you're required to take Divine Sacrifice for)

Unless, maybe someone can answer a PvP question for me...

if someone Purges us, for example, and we have 100% DP dispel resistance, does it skip trying to dispel it, or is it still tried, and just failed to be dispelled? If It's the former, maybe 1/2 is better for PvP also, by possibly making someone waste a few attempts to take it off of us? ^^;

Edited for clarity, and to include a sample spec.
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Re: 1/2 SA spec... what about 1/2 GBtL?

Postby Sarkan-ZdC » Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:46 am

100% is skipped. Funny is 50% + 30% Dispell Chance from the other talent in prot gives 80%. It'll try to purge that..
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Re: 1/2 SA spec... what about 1/2 GBtL?

Postby Conaan! » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:51 am

Sarkan-ZdC wrote:100% is skipped. Funny is 50% + 30% Dispell Chance from the other talent in prot gives 80%. It'll try to purge that..

pissed off shamans, tonight at 11

@OP, PVP, the 3% isnt much, skip it, but for PVE, take it over SA easy, not only is it damage reduction, but it is a higher chance of keeping your DP going, which will be nice when your trying to tank noth in a pink dress and a christmas hat for mana
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Re: 1/2 SA spec... what about 1/2 GBtL?

Postby Khayne » Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:02 am

In pvp I'd be more concerned of ooming, than anything else.
I'd see that dispel resistance on DP as irreplaceable in pvp.

Also Venoseth, no reason to take 4/5 conviction if you go PoJ.
Sanctity of Battle gives exact same crit increase, and as a situational bonus you'll get increased exorcism damage, so if you want that crit, take that instead of 4th point in conviction.

My planned spec atm leans on:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9704

Should be great for tanking in pve, and also not too bad version of prot for pvp when solo (duels, mining in wg)
Not a real fan of divine sacrifice or guardian as i see it now. Mayve after i possibly see encounters that i feel it'd be useful.
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Re: 1/2 SA spec... what about 1/2 GBtL?

Postby Solare » Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:53 pm

I've been a long time reader, but I've never posted. I usually wait until one of the big shots makes their point (and if you've been reading, you know of whom I speak) before I make my judgements. But I'm going to take a stab at this

Basically, this argument comes down to whether you want to take 1/2 SA to get your full 18 points in Retribution for 3/3 Crusade, or 1/2 GBtL. Both are interesting prospects. Here are my thoughts on the matter.

2/2 SA: As it stands right now, ALL tankadins have this 'talent' and 0/2 in GBtL for the purpose of refreshed Divine Plea durations (for discussion sake). How do you feel about your mana regen? To simplify it for myself, I know that:

A) I have very little mana regen for soloing, and typically run Seal of Wisdom when out and about and world pvp. No mana returns from SA.
B) In group situations, unless I am tanking a very dangerous boss, without Blessing of Sanctuary, I quickly go oom. This is especially true on trash, and nearly a given on many bosses.
C) In any situation where I am getting plenty of mana returns, I'm typically too concerned with my bouncing health bar to care.

So, by my theory is that SA, while a wonderful and effective tool of paladin tanking, is mildly counter-intuitive. The point where you need maximum mana, tanking trash, they by design don't do enough damage to a block-capped tankadin to warrant much healing. And on dangerous bosses, you typically get TOO much mana back, if there is such a thing.

I believe, that effective uptime on Divine Plea will help streamline our mana regen and add back a bit more personal management over our own abilities. And if you're like me and spam Divine Plea on every cd when you're not in a life or death situation, you know it can very nearly keep our full 969 cycle going. So I think that even on a low damage output boss like Lotheb, 2/2 GBtL and 1/2 SA will give us all the mana we need.

So in conclusion, such a talent placement should fix several tankadin problems such as: solo and pvp mana regen, or times when heals from other players simply are not coming to you; low yield bosses; and swarms of trash that cry sweet little tears when they try to hurt you and are met with a shield instead.

Now, 50% chance on every weapon swing to refresh the duration is a pretty safe expectation, to be sure. And I'm sure the 1/2 SA or 1/2 GBtL might be argued for a long time to come, but I see it like this: would I prefer to be positive that my own mana regen mechanic can stay up, or instead increase a mechanic that allows other people's actions to fuel my mana regen. My pride sets me in my direction. As any tank worth his salt would prefer to do his own job, himself.
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