Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby JoeBravo » Tue May 19, 2009 12:08 am

Getting cast pain suppression on you regularly by a disc priest does reduce the usefullness of the glyph. :(
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby sfrog » Tue May 19, 2009 3:13 am

Olen wrote:I don't know any ptanks that use this glyph and are unhappy with it. Only tanks that won't take it.
I'm not gonna pass up on a mini-shield wall personally.

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I've had it. It was interesting - and I can't tell you that having it saved my life or the raid from wiping. I'm not going to bash the glyph as I can see the use in it and have used it. I just don't think it's as amazing as you're making it out to be based on my own subjective experience. I'm rather frugal and conservative compared to some when it comes to using my cool downs, be they talents, glyphs or items. The glyph gave me another cool down to play with and it was interesting to play with while I had it.

I also wouldn't take it again unless Alganon requires me to do so in order to raid as prot.

Why? Because while it's easy to compensate for the reduced threat even with my somewhat funky MS at times, I play with a group of players who expect their tanks to not just hold aggro but put out enough that there is no wait time, and never any reason to stop even if a tank for some reason dies and someone else has to pick it up. Even with it being keybound in a macro to do the work for me, I found I was better off, lived just as long and had plenty of breathing room for our shaman's too often lucky crit streaks. The final nail in the coffin for me was the fact the healers couldn't tell a difference when I had and used the glyphed and when I didn't. For me to use the glyph and use it religiously I want to hear from my guild healers that there was a noticeable difference between having it and not.
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby towelliee » Tue May 19, 2009 7:03 am

It made a world of difference on Council Hard Mode last night for me....I endorse this glyph.
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby Racolus » Wed May 20, 2009 9:27 pm

I have tried this in my 'darkest hour' (or seconds, whatever):

Putting this up along with bubble wall, and when you are in AD range, you are simply very very hard to kill. It was just a situation which I have to burn my CD to survive, but it suprised my healer and made them ask how you survived that 5 seconds with only 8k health.
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby theckhd » Thu May 21, 2009 6:59 am

Scottzirra wrote:On another note, I know using HoSalv late in the fight is a larger threat loss, but what kind of dps are your raiders doing? we have a few people 5k+ and a lock that approaches 6k, and I have enough of a TPS lead that I could hit Salv if I had the glyph, and not feel like i was endangering them.

I have some very talented DPS, which is part of my problem. Most of them pull 5+k, and many can approach 6+k or higher if they're allowed to just stand and nuke.

For example, here's our WWS from Tuesday night. On XT-002 Deconstructor, I had 10 players pulling over 5k DPS, three of those being over 6.5k, and a shaman and a rogue pushing 7.5k. In fact, the only people below 5k were the two tanks, a resto druid who was off-spec boomkin for that fight, and the 4 players in charge of aoe-ing scrapbots and nuking bomb bots.

If you really want to shiver, take a look at the Hodir kill. 10 players over 6k DPS, 5 of those over 8k, and one mage doing over 10k dps who was riding my ass on Omen the whole damn fight. Needless to say, I wasn't able to use HoSalv myself on that fight. :P
Admittedly, that's a gimmick fight, but it's still something I have to solo-tank weekly in Frost Resist gear, so it's worth considering. It's one fight where I don't have too much trouble justifying a deep Crusade spec - no other tank we have can keep up that sort of threat generation.

And yet, as I become more comfortable with the glyph (and more importantly, the keybind I set up for it), I've found that I'm beginning to use it all the time. It saved me at least once during a botched kite phase on Vezax last night.

Also, we only had one Holy priest in the raid last night, so I ended up having to use HoSalv on the first Plasma Blast each attempt - it worked far better than using it on the second attempt, especially since my DPS was aware of it and waited until after the first blast to unload and pop cooldowns. So my intuition earlier in the thread was definitely off on that one.

So congratulations to those who convinced me to test it out, you've won over another convert. :P
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby Nadir » Sun May 31, 2009 12:55 am

Without any additional damage reduction, Plasma Blast with the 25% emergency mode modifier is fairly difficult to heal through. I found this glyph extremely useful for phase 1 of Firefighter attempts. My rotation was Divine Protection on the first Plasma Blast, external CD on the second, and Salvation on the third.
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby Dread » Sun May 31, 2009 9:07 am

Most people mention using it first as being the least detrimental to your overall TPS. I was just curious why you preferred to use it 3rd.
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby Nadir » Sun May 31, 2009 12:02 pm

I found that my threat was lower relative to DPS on the first Plasma Blast because of how much movement goes on during the initial pull of Firefighter. I'd wait for the first mine blast and then move Mimiron to the outer edge of the room. Once a new shell volley went off, I'd move him again out of the range of fire. I'd guess my average TPS during this time was more like 3-4k rather than 5-6k.
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby Rhazi » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:54 am

You guys are making it sound good. Now, the beauty of me being a scribe is that I can change out glyphs when going into a fight where using HoF just isn't feasible (Hodir). I'm going to slap it on tonight for the continuation of our raid.
Last edited by Rhazi on Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby Scottzirra » Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:20 pm

theckhd wrote:Also, we only had one Holy priest in the raid last night, so I ended up having to use HoSalv on the first Plasma Blast each attempt - it worked far better than using it on the second attempt, especially since my DPS was aware of it and waited until after the first blast to unload and pop cooldowns. So my intuition earlier in the thread was definitely off on that one.


We have run to this as well, but we compensate by using a DK tank, and rotating their "shield wall", priests' wings, and pallies' Hand of Sacrifice. I am usually offtank (or backup tank should the tank not get out in p4), and also use divine guardian to mitigate a fair amount of it.
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby Nadir » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:45 pm

After a week and a half of hard modes on 10 and 25 man, I've reached made the following observations:

Salvation friendly fights:
XT (especially hard mode) ; even with top end DPS, you're going to end up miles and miles ahead in threat due to the stationary nature of the fight. Helps as a general decrease in damage taken over time.

Auriaya (especially Crazy Cat Lady) ; if you're going for a normal kill, the fight is a joke, but you won't lose threat to DPS since they spend the first 30 seconds or so on adds. You'll have a solid threat lead throughout the fight. For Crazy Cat Lady, every bit of mitigation on high stack bleeds helps. Threat generally isn't an issue in this case either since the adds aren't actively being DPSed.

IC (especially hard mode) ; on 25 man you're going to have to survive at least two Fusion Punches that are going to hit for more than your total HP. DP and Salvation make this 25-30 seconds of tanking much easier on healers. Threat isn't an issue since two other bosses are killed before Steelbreaker.

Freya (especially hard mode) ; half the fight is spent with DPS focusing on adds. Threat is never an issue. Helps a bit in AOE phases like a combination of Lasher explosions plus ground Tremor.

Mimiron (especially hard mode) ; I found it extremely useful in mitigating Plasma Blast. Threat isn't too much of an issue, especially since ranged DPS won't be attacking the bottom portion for the remainder of the fight. Holding threat off of melee is never much of an issue.

Thorim (especially hard mode) ; using some sort of boss mod, you can anticipate Unbalancing Strike and have a cool down ready to mitigate it plus the subsequent melee critical hit. This is extremely useful at high charges where tank gibs are possible.

Yogg-Saron (especially hard mode) ; my guild uses a strategy of blowing two-three guardians up at once in the center. I use Salvation + taunt to ensure I never lose threat as they're about to blow up. Every bit of mitigation helps, especially in a burst situation such as that.

Salvation unfriendly fights:
Razorscale ; the combination of moving the boss out of fires and the short duration of the tanked portion of the fight makes Salvation dangerous to use. Moreover it's not at all necessary for survival.

Hodir (especially hard mode) ; the unequal spread of a the critical bonus combined with the haste bonus from the white beams makes threat a primary concern on this encounter.

General Vezax (especially hard mode) ; given our MP issues, the kited nature of the fight, and the DPS bonus gained from ranged, Salvation use is limited. Useful in the "oh shit" situations where melee fails at interrupts.

Unknown:
Ignis: I generally stack block value and manage the Constructs. I've never had a chance to tank him using Salvation.
Algalon: Still need Firefighter. :P
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby Cylan » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:54 am

Nadir wrote:Thorim (especially hard mode) ; using some sort of boss mod, you can anticipate Unbalancing Strike and have a cool down ready to mitigate it plus the subsequent melee critical hit. This is extremely useful at high charges where tank gibs are possible.

I found salvation to be hazardous to use during phase 2, since all of the DPS is doing max DPS and the other tank is still fighting for aggro. This can lead to unintentional tank switching or pulled aggro...

I don't find myself putting this glyph to use that often, especially with disc/holy priests and other paladins available to mitigate the same (if not more) amount of damage through their abilities without the massive threat loss.
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby moduspwnens » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:13 am

I picked up this glyph and I use it in conjunction with a Retadin's HandofSac for a semi-Shield Wall for the first Plasma Blast of Mimiron P1. I just blow Wings for a nice lead, then Salv it back down to a normal, healthy threat lead.
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby Huma » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:25 am

usin this one on general made us the kill

bubblewall the first one, pain supression the second one, and salvation the third. rinse and repeat, no kiting no nothing. had 2 mages 1 lock and 1 hunter 1 unlholy dk and arms warrior which were doin the interrupts, i didnt use consecration all the time to save mana but still didnt have trouble with aggro, my hunter helped with md's all the fight. mages were at 6k, lock hit 4.5k (unlucky with life leech all the time). was our second kill so they need to practice dps on this boss to hit bigger numbers. fight took 7 minutes something.
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Re: Glyph of Hand of Salvation.

Postby Kelaan » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:12 am

When looking at my glyphs,I'd like to swap in the HoSalv glyph, but am unsure which to replace. Should I replace the RD glyph, despite that when tanking adds I'm not block capped (my BV gear isn't, my main boss tanking gear is), or the Judgement glyph? I am leaning towards the RD one, except I use that spell so often (and usu tank in my BV gear for trash, heroics, etc) that I worry about missed taunts.
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