Divine Sacrifice - Single Point, Teir 3 Prot Talent

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Postby Saeverud » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:46 am

I'm taking it, it's up on the PTR already and people have played with it, but I want to confirm. You actually take the damage that's redirected correct?
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Postby Dorvan » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:07 am

Kynes wrote:
Majiben wrote:I liked DG; I just don't think that DSac and DG should both exist.


DG has many uses. DSac just feels like a nerfed DG we can active w/o bubbling. IE to get gibbed.


We'll have to test on the PTR to be sure, but DSac seems strictly more flexible than DG....you can always pop DSac and bubble still. The problem with DG as a tank is that you can only use it when you're not actually doing your job (i.e. tanking something).
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Postby rocket » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:21 am

i havent used it to prevent damage yet in a raid as a tank...

i think the only time i ever use the bubble (again as a tank) is to wipe the debuff stack with a quick double key slam. therefore it is effectively a 5min CD debuff wiper.

some things that i think woulda been useful in the past:
spell reflect
anti-fear
CD reset
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Postby Doxa » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:31 pm

It seems to me that Blizz is trying to move Holy Paladins outta the Ret tree (and stacking so much crit) and into the prot tree. This basically results in filling the prot tree with talents really meant for a holy paladin but could occasionally under the perfect conditions be used by prot paladins.

As I can tell now, if you don't want divinity, DS or DG you're basically taking another usually-skipped talent or reckoning to move into the sixth tier of the Prot tree.

I really hope this doesn't stick.
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Postby Fridmarr » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:45 pm

Doxa wrote:It seems to me that Blizz is trying to move Holy Paladins outta the Ret tree (and stacking so much crit) and into the prot tree. This basically results in filling the prot tree with talents really meant for a holy paladin but could occasionally under the perfect conditions be used by prot paladins.

As I can tell now, if you don't want divinity, DS or DG you're basically taking another usually-skipped talent or reckoning to move into the sixth tier of the Prot tree.

I really hope this doesn't stick.


Yeah I get that perception too, but there's always some crossover in talent trees. If these were the trees that were unveiled at the start of WotLK beta, we'd probably feel like they'd given holy a nice choice and we'd be pretty happy overall. Instead, it comes off feeling like our unused talent spots are being eaten by holy talents, which is probably a bit unfair.
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Postby Doxa » Sat Mar 07, 2009 3:20 pm

Fridmarr wrote:Instead, it comes off feeling like our unused talent spots are being eaten by holy talents, which is probably a bit unfair.


This is exactly where I'm at Fridmarr. Hmm... in fact, I'm trying to remember if I've ever disagreed with you here... :-)
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Postby Arquine » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:23 pm

Nicki wrote:should have a big red tag on it...

DO NOT USE WHILE TANKING ANYTHING DANGEROUS..

its a useless cooldown as a tank this talent appeals to offtankadins in alot of ways its about as useless as the talent warriors have to improve intervene...


Honestly this is pretty much the worst idea ever...ok its good for pvp thats about it.


I won't be so quick on that. Who is to say you have to put up DS first before DP?

a 63k damage, by half is 31.5k damage - that is not going to kill any decent paladin. If my assumption is correctly, it knocks off a maximum of 75% of your total hit points.

I'd like to think of it as a Last Stand, whereas warrior's last stand works for himself, ours is a raid last stand - where we give the raid a chance to survive. Who is to say it has to be all 24 members taking 2.6k damage ? it could be some sort of attack that affects 2/3 targets - and you're here for a lifesaver.

situational I agree, but we're never going to get an essential talent at this point, and I rather like our unique trait.
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Postby Doxa » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:46 pm

Arquine wrote:
Nicki wrote:should have a big red tag on it...

DO NOT USE WHILE TANKING ANYTHING DANGEROUS..

its a useless cooldown as a tank this talent appeals to offtankadins in alot of ways its about as useless as the talent warriors have to improve intervene...


Honestly this is pretty much the worst idea ever...ok its good for pvp thats about it.


I won't be so quick on that. Who is to say you have to put up DS first before DP?

a 63k damage, by half is 31.5k damage - that is not going to kill any decent paladin. If my assumption is correctly, it knocks off a maximum of 75% of your total hit points.

I'd like to think of it as a Last Stand, whereas warrior's last stand works for himself, ours is a raid last stand - where we give the raid a chance to survive. Who is to say it has to be all 24 members taking 2.6k damage ? it could be some sort of attack that affects 2/3 targets - and you're here for a lifesaver.

situational I agree, but we're never going to get an essential talent at this point, and I rather like our unique trait.


Here is a summary of why I don't want DG or DS.

DG and DS are useful..

When ... if... but only... while... and if... but not after.... if... as long as.... just before ....
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Postby Fridmarr » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:39 pm

Arquine wrote:
Nicki wrote:should have a big red tag on it...

DO NOT USE WHILE TANKING ANYTHING DANGEROUS..

its a useless cooldown as a tank this talent appeals to offtankadins in alot of ways its about as useless as the talent warriors have to improve intervene...


Honestly this is pretty much the worst idea ever...ok its good for pvp thats about it.


I won't be so quick on that. Who is to say you have to put up DS first before DP?

a 63k damage, by half is 31.5k damage - that is not going to kill any decent paladin. If my assumption is correctly, it knocks off a maximum of 75% of your total hit points.

I'd like to think of it as a Last Stand, whereas warrior's last stand works for himself, ours is a raid last stand - where we give the raid a chance to survive. Who is to say it has to be all 24 members taking 2.6k damage ? it could be some sort of attack that affects 2/3 targets - and you're here for a lifesaver.

situational I agree, but we're never going to get an essential talent at this point, and I rather like our unique trait.


You lost me a little bit. What assumption are you making? It seems like the maximum would be 150%. If not, I'm still not sure how you can scoff at it being 75%. You'd use this for burst AoE damage, and taking 31k damage in addition to tanking is extremely dangerous particularly when you may be on the receiving end of what damage is causing you to use this in the first place.

A raid last stand would give the raid more health temporarily (which isn't a bad idea btw), but wouldn't redirect damage and risk causing death to the maintank and cause him to also blow his other emergency cooldown. If there was an encounter where I wanted to use this skill, I almost certainly won't be MTing it.
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Postby majiben » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:41 pm

Only half the damage being prevented is being redirected to the paladin atm.
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Postby Fridmarr » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:47 pm

Majiben wrote:Only half the damage being prevented is being redirected to the paladin atm.


Because of DP or something else that I'm missing?
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Postby majiben » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:48 pm

May be bugged but no one is complaining. We're not sure.
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Postby dekort » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:34 am

are our mitigation effects going into place before or after the amount comes to us? let's say this talent directs 32k damage from party members to us, does our armor/talents then reduce that amount?
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Postby Fridmarr » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:38 am

Dekort wrote:are our mitigation effects going into place before or after the amount comes to us? let's say this talent directs 32k damage from party members to us, does our armor/talents then reduce that amount?


Our armor shouldn't, but our mitigation talents very well could. That's why folks are suggesting popping Divine Protection beforehand. I'm just speculating though, I have not tested it.
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Postby Arquine » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:07 am

it could possibly , by logic of "this is never going to be sunwell" , if raid is going to take heavy raid damage, I don't expect the tank to lose 25% life in the next 2 seconds. Or else, throw in LOH as well XD

the point is, this new talent allows us to main tank and use it as opposed to the old talent which at best is an off-tanking utlity.
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