5/5 Divinity

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Postby theckhd » Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:27 am

Nyrin1 wrote:but it makes where ever it is a "must" talent... sh!t.. they could add it to reckoning for all we know =/

That would be one way to make Reckoning worth putting points into. As it currently stands, each point of Reckoning is worth roughly 12 DPS from white damage.

However, this seems unlikely since they said it would be 2 talent points, unless they drop Reckoning to 2 points.

I also think that T5 would be an excellent place for it, though.
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Judgement of light

Postby Jeyla » Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:16 pm

Sooooo the way i'm seeing divinity could be a 5% increase to my inbuilt holy HOT 8) that I judge onto certain bosses and some trash. I'm also seeing it as each of my raid resto druid's HOTs healing me for 5% more per HOT. Maybe not really needed atm but in Ulduar........maaaybe

What i'd like to find out: Does Divinity effect Judgement of Light and Seal of Light? I'm thinking yes.

5% more raid healing chance on hit

Would Divinity make Judgement of light heal yourself for 10% more because the heal is coming from the mob....i'm thinking that would be too good to be true. :wink:

With my style of tanking, theres quite a few situations where i'm tanking with seal of light active (situations of no threat worries), so I can help out the healer :D

Oh and don't forget imp devo aura on top of this...
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Re: Judgement of light

Postby Gamingdevil » Sun Mar 15, 2009 2:45 am

Jeyla wrote:Sooooo the way i'm seeing divinity could be a 5% increase to my inbuilt holy HOT 8) that I judge onto certain bosses and some trash. I'm also seeing it as each of my raid resto druid's HOTs healing me for 5% more per HOT. Maybe not really needed atm but in Ulduar........maaaybe

What i'd like to find out: Does Divinity effect Judgement of Light and Seal of Light? I'm thinking yes.

5% more raid healing chance on hit

Would Divinity make Judgement of light heal yourself for 10% more because the heal is coming from the mob....i'm thinking that would be too good to be true. :wink:

With my style of tanking, theres quite a few situations where i'm tanking with seal of light active (situations of no threat worries), so I can help out the healer :D

Oh and don't forget imp devo aura on top of this...


A retridin's judgement of light will still be far superior to yours, 5% or not (if it is 10% to yourself that's still a lot less on the raid)

And would people please stop factoring in Improved Devotion Aura into this? The talents are not linked, you can have one irregardless over the other.
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Re: Judgement of light

Postby Noradin » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:23 am

Jeyla wrote:Would Divinity make Judgement of light heal yourself for 10% more because the heal is coming from the mob....i'm thinking that would be too good to be true. :wink:


Yes but with divine plea up (and you will have it up for the 3% damage reduction, even/especially when you won't need the mana) it will be cut by half, too, so it will heal you for less than it does now.
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Postby Awyndel » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:47 am

In my guild i'm gonna need survival more then threat in ulduar. And I was thinking of putting the 4 points to get down in the tree in divinity anyway, unless reckoning with sor becomes a lot stronger for threat then sov. The I'd rather put 1 more point in divinity, then one more point in threat.

I am sorta in doubt where to put the left over points though, I wanna put them where they give me the most tps, although if different i am also interested in the most dps.

Is touched by light always gonna come out on top? Is it must have for threat?

Wich numbers in conviction, crusade, and sotp would be best with the points i have left?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9684
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Postby Conaan! » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:04 pm

Awyndel wrote:In my guild i'm gonna need survival more then threat in ulduar. And I was thinking of putting the 4 points to get down in the tree in divinity anyway, unless reckoning with sor becomes a lot stronger for threat then sov. The I'd rather put 1 more point in divinity, then one more point in threat.

I am sorta in doubt where to put the left over points though, I wanna put them where they give me the most tps, although if different i am also interested in the most dps.

Is touched by light always gonna come out on top? Is it must have for threat?

Wich numbers in conviction, crusade, and sotp would be best with the points i have left?

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9684


TbtL is the single best threat talent, i believe knaughty put it at a 3% increase PER talent point
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Postby majiben » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:06 pm

The new 1HS will give a similar amount of threat per point.
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Postby Awyndel » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:45 am

So where would i best put my 7left over points? 5 conviction and 2 crusade, or is a combination with sotp better?

And what if i take PoJ, should i then take 5/5 in conviction or 5/5 in SotP?
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mhm

Postby stroggylos » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:19 am

unfortunatelly not able to enter a ptr ... anyways it seems that u can always use dual specc in the same way u use a high mitigation-high threat set and get top survivability-top threat speccs .
would also like to comment that many changes are done t oscale things better in high end pvp content so many odd talents in early tierz could have some use in there and well we all specced improved dev aura without questioning the use of it + u are not goin to get only one 10k heal specially if multiple healerz are targetting u + overhealin was there since tankin deadmines so i cannot understand why i should think about "more overhealin" issues when trying to survive through battles+ i would like my healerz to be able and watch about void zones on the ground keepin me and the raid alive easier so if i can afford it i will spec it :P
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Postby Awyndel » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:35 am

Here we go, with the new ptr it's looking like 5/5 conviction vs 5/5 sotp for me if i get 5/5 divinity. No points left for crusade.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9704

does conviction still beat sotp without crusade in 3.1?
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Postby Sala » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:59 am

Awyndel wrote:Here we go, with the new ptr it's looking like 5/5 conviction vs 5/5 sotp for me if i get 5/5 divinity. No points left for crusade.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9704

does conviction still beat sotp without crusade in 3.1?


I dont think its worth using 9 points to get 5% increased crit compared to SotP
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Postby theckhd » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:00 am

Awyndel wrote:Here we go, with the new ptr it's looking like 5/5 conviction vs 5/5 sotp for me if i get 5/5 divinity. No points left for crusade.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin ... rsion=9704

does conviction still beat sotp without crusade in 3.1?

The spec you linked has 0/5 SotP, and in fact, if you're going to spend 54 points in Prot in order to get all the top tier talents, you can't get 5/5 Conviction and SotP, because you don't have enough points.

And no, 2/5 Conviction 5/5 SotP probably won't beat a 5/5 Conviction 2/3 Crusade build for DPS or threat.
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Postby Awyndel » Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:44 am

I obviously have problems expressing myself in a clear way. I will give it another try. Might be worth mentioning it's 56 points in prot for me now since they implemented SA.

I don't mind 4 points invested into ret to reach conviction coz they have nowhere else to go anyway for me.

Hence I will have 5 points left for either 5/5 conviction, OR 5/5 sotp, 0/3 in crusade. So wich one would be better?
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Postby theckhd » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:31 am

Awyndel wrote:I obviously have problems expressing myself in a clear way. I will give it another try. Might be worth mentioning it's 56 points in prot for me now since they implemented SA.

I don't mind 4 points invested into ret to reach conviction coz they have nowhere else to go anyway for me.

Hence I will have 5 points left for either 5/5 conviction, OR 5/5 sotp, 0/3 in crusade. So wich one would be better?

Ah, in that case 5/5 SotP will probably be better. Previous analysis (using Last Laugh and standard 969) showed Conviction to be slightly ahead in DPS, but slightly behind in TPS. However, it was close enough that our new Tier 8 2-piece set bonus (+10% seal damage) should tip the scales in SotP's favor.

<edit> Also, your post was perfectly clear, looking back at it. I just completely misread it. Sorry for the confusion.
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Postby Rasmfrackn » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:51 pm

What I took away from the anti-divinity side of the argument is that healing in the raid game is basically stupid and getting worse. Assumptions are that 2 hits kill a tank, and every heal contains overheal already. Basically, we're looking at CHeal chains? I haven't been defined as a healadin on our roster since karazhan, but that sounds pretty bleak to me and doesn't make me ever want to go back, even though I'm planning on making holy my 2nd dual spec.

When I heal, it's usually in a 5-man or something and there I've got plenty of time to react, not overheal, etc etc. The night I helped heal Malygos, I certainly was feeling frustrated that basically if I'm not mindlessly spamming holy light, the tank can get destroyed in the time that it takes to switch from casting one spell to the other. I.e. any heal longer than the GCD had better heal to full.

I'm really not looking forward to something like Hodir...

-- And as a tank, it feels like it takes everything out of my hands. If 2 hits kill whether I have 58% mitigation or 65% mitigation from armor, if I have 40k hps or 50k hps, if I have 50% avoidance or 65% avoidance... it's all just up to my healers spamming and me playing with my rotation to maximize threat and maybe move around the room if there's something interesting to test situational awareness. There isn't even enough heads-up to strategically use a bubblewall.

Now, I personally don't think it's this cut and dried. I like divinity and I think it will have an impact, but I think its impact will be smallest for progression tanking while it will be very useful for instances and farm content. I also see that their way to make things "harder" for tanks and healers just involves making each hit larger to match stamina and keep TTL constant and relatively short (though streaky due to avoidance).
Last edited by Rasmfrackn on Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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