3.1 spec 5/53/13 vs 0/53/18

[steadypal]

SOTP spec

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZxVA0uTuIIRGots0h

vs

crusade spec

http://ptr.wowhead.com/?talent=sZxVA0uTuIIRGots0x0c



tried both on test dummy in org,, idk why but the SOTP spec was always on top, idk probably lucky crit streaks.. with hotr glyph to hit 4 targets... 15% better SOV dots might add up quick?


although crusade does seem nice.... btw ulduar will have robots right? does that count under crusade? im not sure.......


oh and i put 4 points into reckoning until i see what they put in our t1... hopefully its not really that 5% healing crap...

anyways,, what spec are you guys going with????

[Laz]

Did you test on the heroic training dummy? Sounds like you're testing on the other dummies and letting your hammer hit multiple mobs.

The math doesn't support SotP being better than Crusade. The combat dummy tests the worst case scenario of 3% crusade.

[Dorvan]

Posting actual logs would be much more helpful than such anecdotes, so that we can check your methodology and see where you results disagree with what theory says should be the case. Also, what debuffs were on the mob when you tested and how were you buffed? Testing unbuffed isn't really a good predictor of raid performance.

[Fafa]

Has anyone actually factored in reckoning dps/tps in these comparisons?

When I see these specs compared I usually just see SotP vs Convic/Crusade with no regard for reckoning because the 5/xx/xx builds are picking up Divine Guardian or some other talent that adds nothing to dps/threat output. Comparing the strength of 1 dps increasing talent vs 2 dps increasing talents ftl. If they are coming close like this, reckoning should have an impact.

I'm pretty much the MT now for the guild, which means divine guardian is largely useless and every tier 6+ talent is maxed out for mitigation purposes - I'd be pretty stupid to not take full JotJ and Divinity. That puts me at 54 points minimum in prot and makes a crusade spec look a whole lot less appealing when you can't get the full benefit.


tldr: How is 5/5 SotP+5/5 (or 3/5) Reckoning going to compare to 5/5 Conviction+3/3 (or 2/3) Crusade?

ps. Parry gib is NOT a factor.

[Conaan!]

Has anyone actually factored in reckoning dps/tps in these comparisons?

When I see these specs compared I usually just see SotP vs Convic/Crusade with no regard for reckoning because the 5/xx/xx builds are picking up Divine Guardian or some other talent that adds nothing to dps/threat output. Comparing the strength of 1 dps increasing talent vs 2 dps increasing talents ftl. If they are coming close like this, reckoning should have an impact.

I'm pretty much the MT now for the guild, which means divine guardian is largely useless and every tier 6+ talent is maxed out for mitigation purposes - I'd be pretty stupid to not take full JotJ and Divinity. That puts me at 54 points minimum in prot and makes a crusade spec look a whole lot less appealing when you can't get the full benefit.


tldr: How is 5/5 SotP+5/5 (or 3/5) Reckoning going to compare to 5/5 Conviction+3/3 (or 2/3) Crusade?

ps. Parry gib is NOT a factor.

simple thought, reckoning doesnt scale with avoidance, if you dont get hit it doesnt proc, it also does not add anything other than white damage and the miniscule 10 damage sov proc

[Dorvan]

simple thought, reckoning doesnt scale with avoidance, if you dont get hit it doesnt proc, it also does not add anything other than white damage and the miniscule 10 damage sov proc

Then again, despite the fact that the SoV glyph affects mostly white damage, it's actually better than the Judgment glyph. There's really no substitute for doing the analysis. I believe theckhd's matlab work includes a Reckoning variable....I'll check when I get to my machine with matlab in a few.

[Fafa]

Reckoning procs off blocks now - it has a higheruptime now than it ever had before. White damage may seem miniscule, but my white crits are over 1k easily.

[majiben]

Well the ilvl given by the SoV glyph is staggering. Can you imagine if we have a glyph that gave us 80 str or 80 hit permanently (practically speaking).

[majiben]

Reckoning procs off blocks now - it has a higheruptime now than it ever had before. White damage may seem miniscule, but my white crits are over 1k easily.

It's always procced off blocks as long as they aren't full blocks. Otherwise it would have never been an option.

[Fridmarr]

Reckoning procs off blocks now - it has a higheruptime now than it ever had before. White damage may seem miniscule, but my white crits are over 1k easily.

It's always procced off blocks as long as they aren't full blocks. Otherwise it would have never been an option.

Correct, in other words, the uptime against a raid boss (well except maybe Loatheb) hasn't changed at all.

[Fafa]

Correct, in other words, the uptime against a raid boss (well except maybe Loatheb) hasn't changed at all.

Against bosses, yeah its pretty much the same. But seeing how trash is typically over 50% of an instance, I tend to care about it as well.

[majiben]

Well then you wouldn't touch reckoning. All the other options provide better AoE threat.

[Fafa]

Why wouldn't I? I'm the main tank not just a trash/off tank. MTs tank trash too you know. I care about my single target mitigation/threat/dps as a priority and spec for it. I would never spec to do better on trash and worse on a boss (ie all these specs popping up that drop JotJ and AD).

[Dorvan]

Why wouldn't I? I'm the main tank not just a trash/off tank. MTs tank trash too you know. I care about my single target mitigation/threat/dps as a priority and spec for it. I would never spec to do better on trash and worse on a boss (ie all these specs popping up that drop JotJ and AD).

You were just stating that Reck's proc rate went up as an argument in its favor, it was then pointed out to you that its proc rate didn't go up against bosses, which is the only place where Reckoning would be useful from a threat perspective (since almost all trash is AoE).

I'm not here to rail on Reckoning, but your line of reasoning isn't clear at all.

[Fafa]

That's not entirely true. Reckoning can be very useful on trash for tabbing and applying SoV stacks. Its not 100% dependable by any means, but its definitely not completely worthless on trash and only good for bosses. Yes atm all trash is aoe and a joke - I highly doubt it will stay that way forever. I've never had agro problems on aoe trash working as I do tabbing and getting at least 2-3 stacks on everything, so I see no reason to justify speccing into a stronger aoe threat spec at the cost of losing crucial MT talents.

Sorry, thought I was being pretty clear with the whole "I will not give up X and X talents prot because of my postition" and am simply offering up how reckoning has been benefiting me overall. Everyone is so quick to jump in and nay-say about it. I've been playing with full reckoning for a while a now and I have found it to be far more useful than any of the alternatives *I* have.