Reckoning

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Reckoning

Postby Gustov » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:30 pm

So whats the current take on reckoning? just came back and wondering what the concensus is.
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Postby Wolvar » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:33 pm

It died.
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Postby Gustov » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:56 pm

so is everyone still using reckoning oblivious to that? ive had many people try to tell me that its awesome...but i havent found that at all...and that is why it is not included in my current spec.
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Postby Dorvan » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:26 pm

SoV is the current tanking seal of choice, and does not benefit from melee haste (which is essentially what reckoning is). For tanking, therefore, it only has the fairly anemic benefit of increasing your white damage a little. If you want to solo using SoM/SoB it's okay, but other than that it's not really any good and consequently skipped by most Tankadins.
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Re: Reckoning

Postby knaughty » Thu Jan 15, 2009 6:46 pm

Gustov wrote:So whats the current take on reckoning? just came back and wondering what the concensus is.


Least bad option to get deep into prot if you hate Kings and have a pocket Kings-bot.

Still, probably best to just get Kings/DG.
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Re: Reckoning

Postby aleyona » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:31 am

Knaughty wrote:
Gustov wrote:So whats the current take on reckoning? just came back and wondering what the concensus is.


Least bad option to get deep into prot if you hate Kings and have a pocket Kings-bot.

Still, probably best to just get Kings/DG.


I'm a big proponent of reckoning - I don't have any valid argument as to why, it's just a personal preference. I really only use SoV/SoC when I'm tanking a boss, and the remaining time I'm using Seal of Wisdom.

I have no issues with threat using seal of wisdom most of the time, and I think that reckoning might help me advance my mana regain with it. I've picked up Improved Might, and force my Retadins to pick up kings. That way I can still have sanctuary and kings without any issues. Fortunately, I know I will always have at least one retadin with kings available which makes this viable.
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Re: Reckoning

Postby ulushnar » Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:00 am

Knaughty wrote:
Gustov wrote:So whats the current take on reckoning? just came back and wondering what the concensus is.


Least bad option to get deep into prot if you hate Kings and have a pocket Kings-bot.

Still, probably best to just get Kings/DG.


I'd personally take imp HoJ in a "screw kings" build. Having our only interrupt up twice as often is sometimes nice.
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Postby Tronden » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:39 pm

Blatant Hijack

Ok, so this is reckoning related - and I despise multiple threads about the same thing - so I am hijacking this seemingly dead thread.

So it was proposed in [url="http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?p=356580#356580"]another section[/url]of the forums that Seal of Light might still be generating threat - which may be true since it was only said that they were changing the threat on Judgment of Light...


If... you were to look at a damage mitigation build (which all of them are really), compensating for some damage taken with some SoL heals makes it even EASIER on the healer.

If threat from these heals were enough to compete with the threat created by SoV, and it decreased your squishiness - I would consider this a good thing. I solo with SoL all the time when I am AoE soloing.

Add to this - Reckoning.... given that reckoning is only useless because it gives no benefit to SoV (to which I agree) - could reckoning become better again for SoL tanking? I seem to remember seeing back to back procs of SoL healing when I was specced with reckoning (in 3.03 and leveling).

As far as it being "not as intended" - I always aggro to the damned mob that is healing itself. STOP. HEALING. YOURSELF. DAMNIT. DIE. DIE. DIE.
I can see it as intended. I can also see how JoL was NOT intended for threat since it was a debuff on the target and not an active heal from an item through a buff.

Please think about this, and post your thoughts. When answering, pretend that threat from SoL is a good thing (whether you believe it or not).

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Postby Fridmarr » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:43 pm

Tronden wrote:Blatant Hijack

Ok, so this is reckoning related - and I despise multiple threads about the same thing - so I am hijacking this seemingly dead thread.

So it was proposed in [url="http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/viewtopic.php?p=356580#356580"]another section[/url]of the forums that Seal of Light might still be generating threat - which may be true since it was only said that they were changing the threat on Judgment of Light...


If... you were to look at a damage mitigation build (which all of them are really), compensating for some damage taken with some SoL heals makes it even EASIER on the healer.

If threat from these heals were enough to compete with the threat created by SoV, and it decreased your squishiness - I would consider this a good thing. I solo with SoL all the time when I am AoE soloing.

Add to this - Reckoning.... given that reckoning is only useless because it gives no benefit to SoV (to which I agree) - could reckoning become better again for SoL tanking? I seem to remember seeing back to back procs of SoL healing when I was specced with reckoning (in 3.03 and leveling).

As far as it being "not as intended" - I always aggro to the damned mob that is healing itself. STOP. HEALING. YOURSELF. DAMNIT. DIE. DIE. DIE.
I can see it as intended. I can also see how JoL was NOT intended for threat since it was a debuff on the target and not an active heal from an item through a buff.

Please think about this, and post your thoughts. When answering, pretend that threat from SoL is a good thing (whether you believe it or not).

Thanks


This was parsed a bit back in beta, essentially it is a sizable threat loss. If you have enough of a threat lead, and are trying to maximize survivability then it certainly wouldn't hurt, but I'm not sure the trade off in threat is worth in the general case.
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Postby Tronden » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:56 pm

Fridmarr wrote:
This was parsed a bit back in beta, essentially it is a sizable threat loss. If you have enough of a threat lead, and are trying to maximize survivability then it certainly wouldn't hurt, but I'm not sure the trade off in threat is worth in the general case.


Ahh yes, I found something from October:

Knaughty wrote:
kylone wrote:Do all heals from Seal of Light and (your) Judgement of Light count as your threat? If so, how does it compare to other tanking seals? (Righteousness and Vengeance)

Judgement of Light did about 3,200 TPS sustained at Felmyst on Wednesday. Seal of light does bugger all - seal vengeance.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... hp?t=15506
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Postby Maswin » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:02 am

I was talenting reckoning as a "i can't figure out where else to put this 5 points" (we have another pally doing kings).

In all honesty, I didn't really notice much extra TPS and the extra threat was negligible at best, but I couldn't help but feel too paranoid about the extra parry chance I was giving the boss (again, pretty negligible with my gear & the content).

On Sarth 3D (10man) tho, it made me think that it just shouldn't be used at all if you are attempting 'progression' content, as that slight extra chance to cause a spike could end up being that extra bit of dmg you die from. Imp HoJ/DG are much more useful, hell even Conviction could arguably be better (i don't know the numbers, but would take my crit from 11>16%)
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Postby supai » Thu Jan 29, 2009 6:21 am

I dropped reckoning after seeing it only proced about 25 times in a naxx 25 run. So in 4 hours 25 procs. Just not worth it

I changed my spec to what I am on now and I am happy with it for now. The ability to sacrifice the current tank and then bubble to give him a total of 24 seconds of mini shield wall has helped us down Malygos

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Postby Ryyu » Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:28 pm

Reckoning is usless for TPS, but a nice DPS boost if you have the points to spare. I used to use 3/5 of it in my spec with what i had left over, Moved them into imp HoJ in recent times, This is not for any raid speced reason more large uncontrolable want of a kitty.


Reckoning=left over "personal taste" points, not not a main point spend.
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Postby masterpoobaa » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:04 pm

The next question is: How can Reckoning be improved/made useful again in raids?

instead of a % chance to get more swings; how about...
% chance to increase weapon delt holy damage? (SoV, HotR) or reduce self dmg done with SoM/SoB?
% chance to increase parry?
Increase expertese and/or hit rating while active?
Increase crit chance on target of pallytank while active? (kinda like a bonus ontop or instead of Heart of the crusader?
Chance to stun/interupt enemy attack/disrupt spell casting?

Or the one i like best - give the pally a % boost to strength for X seconds.
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Postby Tronden » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:45 am

I was just looking at some stuff on the ret side of life - and I had put together a somewhat feasable build with reckoning and the rest with ret talents. Not enough points for divine storm... but I don't play ret so I am not sure how essential that is.

Extra swings on a 2-hander with a ret seal on could be pretty powerful, no?

Also, one other thing I was thinking about - reckoning could be useful if it worked with ShoR and HotR. It would be like the ShoR 2-rank abuse, but intentional and all highest rank :-) This and a double HotR would help stack SoV on 3 mobs much faster (not too important for single target but still).

I don't have reckoning in my build... but I did when I was leveling. it was hella good when I had Crusader enchanted on my weapon. That thing procced like CRAZY then. Of course... I was in Stranglethorn Vale at the time... so it didnt mean a thing for anything end game.

Anyhow, I think it could use some love too. having it work with all physical attacks would do it for me. To make it extra OP, I would want it to add +1% hit for each point. +5% hit and double ShoR? mmmmm.... That and its hard as hell to get +hit rating at 30 - which is when the first point could be taken.
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