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Optimizing for my situation

Postby Elrys » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:15 am

Here is the spec I am working on:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=szZaxVAbuRteIRGoxs

As I understand it there are 6 questionable points I've used: 3 in HotC, 2 in DG, 1 in Reckoning.

My situation is that I'm in a guild of 9 personal friends. We have a mix, but most are fairly casual when it comes to raiding. At the moment we have mage, bm hunter, fury warrior, prot warrior, resto druid, resto shaman, enhance shaman, rogue, and me. There are also some high-level alts but I think what I've listed will be our core raiding group. We plan to do heroics and 10-man raids (I realize that 9 < 10, but so it goes). When doing those instances and raids we intend not to use guides or spoilers of any kind. I will probably be off-tanking in raids and tanking heroics. I'll also be pugging heroics, and maybe some raids (the wintergrasp raid, for instance).

Given all that here's my reasoning for spending the points I did, and the questions I have:

1/5 reckoning: Basically a convenience point. I know people hate reckoning, but it's helpful when aoe farming. Question: Will this help me when chain-pulling, or am I already going to be well-supplied with mana due to damage? Here I'm not talking about raids or heroics, but more like rep-farming or getting friends through regular dungeons quickly. If I took this point away, where should I put it (probably sotp)?

3/3 hotc: Some threat benefit, but primarily taken for the raid-wide dps boost. Since we have no ret pally, and I won't be tanking most raid bosses, this seems like a good choice. And my understanding is that it's not terribly much worse than sotp for tanking heroics. Question: Is this a significant group benefit? Is there a better alternative I've missed? How does this affect my personal dps vs sotp?

2/2 dg: Since we aren't using guides and generally try things well above our gear and preparation level, we can expect to wipe a lot. My theory with these points is that as an off-tank dg allows me to keep the raid in the fight longer, so we can solve the encounters in fewer tries. Also we have some inexperienced players, so I see dg as a general-purpose mistake recovery talent. Does this make sense? Am I right that dg + hand of sacrifice results in a total 60% damage reduction on the target?

There are a few alternatives I can see. One would be just dumping those points and putting them into sotp for threat. Generally I'm not anticipating threat-capping the dps as a major factor, so for the above reasons I think these points are better spent. Another would be to ditch sotp and reckoning and get imp might for times when I'm not with either warrior (will happen in heroics frequently). That doesn't really impress me much, since occasions when I have neither warrior but still want to put blessing of might on people will be somewhat rare.

How else could I spend those floating points to optimize for my situation? What else could I do with that one sotp that would be helpful? Ultimately I doubt it matters all that much, but it's fun to think about anyway.
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Postby Thels » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:53 am

3/3 HotC is a good option to increase raid DPS, if there's no other Paladin or Rogue with the same buff, since it doesn't stack. Check with the Rogue what build he uses, since it doesn't stack with Master Poisoner.

For solo DPS it's slightly worse than SotP, and for threat it's much worse, since everyone's getting the benefit. You should still be fine, though, and the overall raid DPS increase should be worth it.



1/5 reckoning only gives slightly more DPS than sotp in the most ideal situation, and less TPS. If you're not being the one that tanks it flat out loses. I'd pick 2/5 sotp over this.



DG is a utility spell. As the designated OT, it might be useful in situations where there's a lot of raid damage and only one mob that needs to be tanked.
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Postby Baelor » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:56 am

Holy crap Thels is alive.
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Postby Thels » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:59 am

And I've been so for like a month? Month and a half, maybe?

I blame Blizzard EU.
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Postby Baelor » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:02 am

Thels wrote:And I've been so for like a month? Month and a half, maybe?

I blame Blizzard EU.

What happened?

(Apologies for the thread de-rail)
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Postby Korimoor » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:23 pm

I didnt see this thread but I am using alomst the exact same spec you are except I pulled the 2 points in DG and the 1 point in reckoing that you have and put those 3 points in SotP.

I agree with everything you have..I think its the best 5-10 man spec. HotC is great and I think undervalued. The group DPS it brings is great. So what if it doesnt add threat since everyone benefits. Out threat is so high atm, I think it is alomst a must have. I agree with you on Kings as well. I 100% will have it at 80.

I still may put 2 of my last 4 points into DG, but I dont know how useful it will be. The other 2 will most likely be kept in SotP.

Nice overall spec :)
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Postby Levantine » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:45 pm

Baelor wrote:Holy crap Thels is alive.


You haven't been paying much attention, my love. D:

Lol, our reactions were pretty similar though, mine was HOLY CRAP IT'S THELS
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Postby Thels » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:14 am

Baelor wrote:What happened?


Got hacked (or leaked?) when I was Guild Leader. The guildbank got lost, and the guild was disbanded. A GM suspended my account for investigation, and said he would send me mails, but I never got anything.

Blizzard EU basically ignored any questions directly related to my account, and I wasn't able to play anymore.

About 2 weeks before WotLK I got a mail that my password was changed, and that my account was no longer suspended.
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Re: Optimizing for my situation

Postby Snake-Aes » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:43 am

Elrys wrote:Here is the spec I am working on:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=szZaxVAbuRteIRGoxs

As I understand it there are 6 questionable points I've used: 3 in HotC, 2 in DG, 1 in Reckoning.

My situation is that I'm in a guild of 9 personal friends. We have a mix, but most are fairly casual when it comes to raiding. At the moment we have mage, bm hunter, fury warrior, prot warrior, resto druid, resto shaman, enhance shaman, rogue, and me. There are also some high-level alts but I think what I've listed will be our core raiding group. We plan to do heroics and 10-man raids (I realize that 9 < 10, but so it goes). When doing those instances and raids we intend not to use guides or spoilers of any kind. I will probably be off-tanking in raids and tanking heroics. I'll also be pugging heroics, and maybe some raids (the wintergrasp raid, for instance).

Given all that here's my reasoning for spending the points I did, and the questions I have:

1/5 reckoning: Basically a convenience point. I know people hate reckoning, but it's helpful when aoe farming. Question: Will this help me when chain-pulling, or am I already going to be well-supplied with mana due to damage? Here I'm not talking about raids or heroics, but more like rep-farming or getting friends through regular dungeons quickly. If I took this point away, where should I put it (probably sotp)?

Not gonna help you much. 1/5 reckoning has enough uptime in aoe to give you more damage than 2/5 SotP, but it's single target damage, and lower threat. I'd just move that point into SotP if you're bent into more damage.
Elrys wrote:3/3 hotc: Some threat benefit, but primarily taken for the raid-wide dps boost. Since we have no ret pally, and I won't be tanking most raid bosses, this seems like a good choice. And my understanding is that it's not terribly much worse than sotp for tanking heroics. Question: Is this a significant group benefit? Is there a better alternative I've missed? How does this affect my personal dps vs sotp?

It's a fine choice for more raid damage.
Elrys wrote:2/2 dg: Since we aren't using guides and generally try things well above our gear and preparation level, we can expect to wipe a lot. My theory with these points is that as an off-tank dg allows me to keep the raid in the fight longer, so we can solve the encounters in fewer tries. Also we have some inexperienced players, so I see dg as a general-purpose mistake recovery talent. Does this make sense? Am I right that dg + hand of sacrifice results in a total 60% damage reduction on the target?

DG is 30% reduction and Sacrifice is another 30%, but they're multiplicative. 0.7² = 0.49, or 51% damage reduction.
If you are not tanking, then yes, DG is a good chocie to add survivability to the raid.
Elrys wrote:There are a few alternatives I can see. One would be just dumping those points and putting them into sotp for threat. Generally I'm not anticipating threat-capping the dps as a major factor, so for the above reasons I think these points are better spent. Another would be to ditch sotp and reckoning and get imp might for times when I'm not with either warrior (will happen in heroics frequently). That doesn't really impress me much, since occasions when I have neither warrior but still want to put blessing of might on people will be somewhat rare.

How else could I spend those floating points to optimize for my situation? What else could I do with that one sotp that would be helpful? Ultimately I doubt it matters all that much, but it's fun to think about anyway.
You already have Kings and Sanctuary. Getting Imp Might is overkill. If you want more damage, SotP is the way. My personal preference is Pursuit of Justice for the run speed.
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