lv80 tanking build? My guess work :D

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lv80 tanking build? My guess work :D

Postby Nagoyah » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:26 am

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Postby Levantine » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:34 am

We used to* have stickies!

Your Ret tree is an absolute mess. Benediction is 100% meh. Conviction has awful returns for the number of points it is. Sanctified Seals? Wtf? Crusade is really too deep in the tree.

Reckoning is junk now that Vengeance is the tanking seal.

No Judgements of the Just is terrible, as is no Ardent Defender. 1/3 ImpDevo isn't worth it. No Kings is a personal choice, but I'm one of the group that thinks not taking it is shooting yourself in the foot.

*: Where'd the stickies go?
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Postby Keron » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:43 am

Just some comments, not a real critique on the spec:

- Not to take Kings means you rely on another paladin to supply it, be it Holy or Ret, he must be there for your raids.

- 5/5 Reckoning and 0/5 Ardent Defender seems like a bad choice, if you want to maintank. If all you want to do is AoE-Tank, that may bring some DPS and consequently also TPS at little cost, but the survivability increase by Ardent Defender has been discussed on these fora to quite some extend. I myself have enlightened myself with Chloe's tankadin-addon and will never ever make a protection build without it.

- 1/3 imp. devotion aura is also questionable. In my opinion, it's an all or nothing talent with strong tendency towards all. Not because of the healing (may be provided by tree druid as well), but because of armor bonus (one of a kind buff, no equivalent from other classes/specs).

- 0/2 Judgement of the Just means that you rely on a warrior to put thunderclap on your targets. Once again, if all you want to do is Offtank adds or AOEtank, this may work out, but for maintanking I would chose this line of thought.

These issues are caused by your distribution of points in the retribution tree. May I ask for the reason you need to go this deep into ret? All talents you chose from there only benefit yourself and in a way that is unnecessary except for solo play. You don't need (as of now) the additional threat generated by more dps with a built like yours.

Also, not taking 1/2 imp. Judgements will destroy the tanking rotation (search 9696).

EDIT: also, what Levantine said.
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Postby Nagoyah » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:53 am

Thank you both for the advice, been a lock for 4 years and this is my first alt (now main).

Are the 8 points in Holy correctly placed? or would it be better in Imp K?

http://www.wow-tools.org/talent-calcula ... 0000000000
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Postby Keron » Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:58 am

Forget Divine Intellect. Basically, your equipment will give you zero int, thus you are spending 3 points for a measly ~12 Int or ~190 Mana. Not enough ROI.

Yes, Kings is again "all or nothing". If you intend to get Kings, the you need 5 Points. Put in the three from Divine Intellect, add the one that you did not yet distribute and you arrived at 5/60/6 which a lot of people here (me included) favor.
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Postby Nagoyah » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:02 am

Thanks again for the valuable advice, just wanted to get the lv80 spec down so I won't have to respec later on.

Going with http://www.wow-tools.org/talent-calcula ... 0000000000
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Postby Levantine » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:06 am

Nagoyah wrote:Thanks again for the valuable advice, just wanted to get the lv80 spec down so I won't have to respec later on.

Going with http://www.wow-tools.org/talent-calcula ... 0000000000


Perfect build.
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Postby guillex » Thu Nov 27, 2008 9:04 am

Levantine wrote:
Nagoyah wrote:Thanks again for the valuable advice, just wanted to get the lv80 spec down so I won't have to respec later on.

Going with http://www.wow-tools.org/talent-calcula ... 0000000000


Perfect build.


And this, coming from Levie, is like God coming down from Heaven, patting you on the back and saying "Thanks for killing that jackass... Now I won't have to deal with him anymore."

:D
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Postby Levantine » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:30 pm

....I'm not sure if that was a compliment, but I'm totally taking it as one.

It's refreshing to see someone who's actually willing to take our advice after revisiting the pure retard that is the "JoL IS BETTAR THAN WISDOM CUZ I DONT SEE SHIT FROM WISDOM" thread.
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Postby knaughty » Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:43 pm

Levantine wrote:*: Where'd the stickies go?

I had my FAQ moved to "Basic Training" since it's basic training now.

Was also a chance to "reset" the thread and thus removed some of the stupid shit.

Many others got unstickied, as they're stale.
Nagoyah wrote:Thanks again for the valuable advice, just wanted to get the lv80 spec down so I won't have to respec later on.

Going with http://www.wow-tools.org/talent-calcula ... 0000000000

Agree with Levie, that's my build, I think it's the best build for covering 5/10/25 man content all at once with one build.
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Postby Lewid » Thu Nov 27, 2008 5:34 pm

I agree with the OP's choice to not take ardent defender, as that talent has always been of poor quality, but I agree with Levantine's comment that not taking Judgments of the just is a bad idea.

Also, benediction is a really bad choice. The only benefit it would give is allowing you slightly longer play time when solo. In a boss fight, the only thing you should be thinking about when organizing talents, you'll never run out of mana.

Also, Levantine, I don't agree with your idea on reckoning. There are many opportunities where you'll want to put up other seals and judgments.

If you run with a ret paladin I'd leave kings, otherwise its a must. Also, if you are not raiding and just doing heroics at the moment, get kings too.

Seals of the pure is probably a good idea, but I have gone without it and have no issues with threat.

The farthest a protadin should ever go in the ret tree is to pick up persuit of justice.
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Postby Levantine » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:20 pm

Lewid, you say Benediction is a bad choice because all it gives you is more efficiency when soloing, but then say that Reckoning is good because you use other seals sometimes.

The only time Reckoning will be up much is AoE farming/tanking. Either solo play with Wisdom, which you've discounted as being unimportant, or AoE tanking an instance, where if you're doing it right, you'll be tab HotR-ing around, meaning vengeance is still the better seal.

Reckoning is a levelling talent these days. That's it.
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Postby guillex » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:25 pm

Lewid wrote:I agree with the OP's choice to not take ardent defender, as that talent has always been of poor quality, but I agree with Levantine's comment that not taking Judgments of the just is a bad idea.

Also, benediction is a really bad choice. The only benefit it would give is allowing you slightly longer play time when solo. In a boss fight, the only thing you should be thinking about when organizing talents, you'll never run out of mana.

Also, Levantine, I don't agree with your idea on reckoning. There are many opportunities where you'll want to put up other seals and judgments.

If you run with a ret paladin I'd leave kings, otherwise its a must. Also, if you are not raiding and just doing heroics at the moment, get kings too.

Seals of the pure is probably a good idea, but I have gone without it and have no issues with threat.

The farthest a protadin should ever go in the ret tree is to pick up persuit of justice.


The OP has AD in his final build. ALWAYS a solid choice.

Reckoning, as I said in the other thread, is useless.

Benediction, again, is useless.
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Postby knaughty » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:39 pm

Lewid wrote:I agree with the OP's choice to not take ardent defender, as that talent has always been of poor quality

You're wrong.

Ardent Defender has always a good talent if you actually tank difficult stuff. Doing some reading on this forum will give you plenty of detail as to why. I posted a pile of data from pre-nerf Sunwell, which was the worst place for it, and it was still good there.

It mitigates 1-2% of damage taken for five points. Which seems like poor value until you realise two things:

(1) It mitigates the 1-2% of damage which will otherwise kill you.
(2) It stacks with Bubblewall to make it ridiculously powerful.

Every single moderator and spec/advice sticky on this forum says to take 5/5 AD. Ignore the advice if you like, but real taking experience and parsing of boss attempts shows that even before Bubblewall AD was good. It's now better.

It isn't our best talent. But there's absolutely nothing else to take that makes any sense at all.

Re "Reckoning" - crap talent is crap. Plenty of maths to show why if you'd bother doing a search.
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Postby knaughty » Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:43 pm

Worth noting that AD got better in Wrath for two reasons:

(1) Bubblewall
(2) Bigger health pool, hits not any bigger.

Patchwerk-25 hits about as hard as Brute, when you're undergeared for him. But you have 30k health instead of 22k.

I'm yet to encounter a boss that can leapfrog AD in Wrath. Maybe Sapph-25 or Malygos-25. Tell you later this week, if I feel like doing the parse.
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