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Finally

Postby guillex » Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:43 am

edit: Mods, I just realised that this may be posted in the wrong forum ... If it needs to go to the gear forum, please move it, my apologies for it being in the wrong place =/ . I R teh not paying attention.

So I got to respec prot last night, as we're taking a forced vacation from raiding (thank god).

I filled out the last gem slot in my leggings with an Enduring Talasite, and am now sitting at 490 defense, and something like 57 or 58% pure avoidance. I'm in the process of getting things enchanted, but I'm trying to stay away from bracer and cloak enchants for now, as I'll be putting together the mats for Green Fortress, and running SV for the cloak.

Other than replacing my Violet Signet with a Figurine of the Colossus or Adamantine Figurine, and my cloak with the Devilshark Neverdrop Cape, what else can I do for right now? Also, is there anything I can do to help my pitiful 161 +sd for AoE tanking?

I also have a "spell damage" set, but when I equip those items (ornate boots of the sanctified, D3 gloves/chest/legs, one or two other +sd items), I get around 500 or 800ish ( i know there's a big difference, but I can't remember offhand) spelldamage, but I drop to 10.4k hp and 450 defense. I know this isn't the greatest for running instances, but for aoe farming I'm not complaining.

Just looking for a bit of direction in what I should be doing, as there are a ton of options. I'm not so good at discerning what my dire needs in change are, so I thought someone would be able to point out a few things. Else I'll go back to scraping through the guides, not a problem. :) (No Vainfae, that wasn't an invitation for you to tell me to
go back to scraping through the guides
lol)

Guillex on Smolderthorn

TIA
Last edited by guillex on Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby adese » Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:01 pm

I would try to find replacements for your shoulders, helm, and boots. The DS3 shoulders are always a great option (assuming you can get them to drop). You can also consider the Fanblade Pauldrons (first boss, Heroic Auchenei Crypts) or the ones that drop off of the last boss of Heroic Sethekk Halls (name escapes me atm).

For the helm, either DS3 for more threat, or the Felsteel for mitigation/avoidance.

As for the boots...not many good options there, unfortunately. There are the Flesh Beast Metal Greaves (not sure of the exact name) from the escort quest in Mana-tombs, but if you've done that quest already there isn't much else that you can do. I used the Obsidian Clobstompers for a long time, just due to the crazy amount of stamina I could get on them until I got the Boots of Elusion in Kara.

I'm not sure how it compares to the Delicate Eternium Ring, but the ring from the last boss in Arcatraz has some very nice stats on it - stamina, dodge, and defense.

Also, your block% seems really low - if you can bump that up, you can generate much more threat from Holy Shield. It is also the cheapest way to get to uncrushable, which is also a priority.
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Postby guillex » Thu Aug 16, 2007 7:18 am

adese wrote:I would try to find replacements for your shoulders, helm, and boots. The DS3 shoulders are always a great option (assuming you can get them to drop). You can also consider the Fanblade Pauldrons (first boss, Heroic Auchenei Crypts) or the ones that drop off of the last boss of Heroic Sethekk Halls (name escapes me atm).


I'll have to work on Bot then, as I'm not yet revered with LC/Kurenai, and can't get the key for the Heroic Auchindoun instances. I think the shoulders you're referring to are the Spaulders of Dementia from Talon King Ikiss. Laj it is ... For now.

adese wrote:For the helm, either DS3 for more threat, or the Felsteel for mitigation/avoidance.


I put +20 sd on my d3 gloves last night, so I'm sitting just over 200 +sd right now. A friend was kind enough to send me the Felsteel, which I have already dropped a glyph of the defender onto, and will proceed to gem. I'm guessing 2 SSoE's and a Flashing Living Ruby (+8 ParryR) or another SSoE?

adese wrote:As for the boots...not many good options there, unfortunately. There are the Flesh Beast Metal Greaves (not sure of the exact name) from the escort quest in Mana-tombs, but if you've done that quest already there isn't much else that you can do. I used the Obsidian Clobstompers for a long time, just due to the crazy amount of stamina I could get on them until I got the Boots of Elusion in Kara.


Nope. I'm stuck with what I have now, unless the Clodstompers drop for me at some point. I suppose a Boar's Speed or Fortitude enchant on those? Actually, I have the Starcaller's Plated Stompers in my inventory, but it seems like too much of a tradeoff with what I have now ...

Plated Stompers: 722 armor, +21 stam, +14 int, +13 defR, +16 sd/heal
Wrought Greaves: 800 armor, +24 str, +21 agi, +22 stam, 2x SSoE

That gives me a bit of pause. I think I'll drop below the 11k mark if I put on the Stompers. Thoughts?

adese wrote:I'm not sure how it compares to the Delicate Eternium Ring, but the ring from the last boss in Arcatraz has some very nice stats on it - stamina, dodge, and defense.


I guess you're talking about the Elementium Band of the Sentry?
+24 stam, +20 defR, +19 dodgeR

compared to the Delicate Eternium Ring
+15 stam, +25 agi, +16 dodgeR

Hm... Don't think there's much comparison to be made, lol ... I guess I'll be farming both Arc and Bot for the shoulders and that ring. It's just a shame that I've already done the BM quest, and picked up the damned healing ring (which I never used). Same thing with the frigging escort quest in MT (Grrrrrr).

adese wrote:Also, your block% seems really low - if you can bump that up, you can generate much more threat from Holy Shield. It is also the cheapest way to get to uncrushable, which is also a priority.


I know, I've been seeing everyone else's at like 18% + .... And I'm sitting at 13%. I don't know how else I can start bumping that up. Seems like I'm two feet away from the finish line, but can't quite seem to make that last step for whatever reason. Anything else that I can swap out, or am I pretty much geared for everything before raiding at this point?

I can't wait for my trinket to drop ... That's going to be a huge step in the right direction for me. That, getting the last two badges that I need for the Libram, and starting on the enchants. Speaking of which, +150 health to chest is a better bet than +6 to all stats, generally speaking, correct? Also, cloak enchants ... armor or dodge?

Thanks for replying Adese. I'll be there quite soon, I'm sure.
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Postby adese » Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:48 am

Guillex wrote:
adese wrote:For the helm, either DS3 for more threat, or the Felsteel for mitigation/avoidance.


I put +20 sd on my d3 gloves last night, so I'm sitting just over 200 +sd right now. A friend was kind enough to send me the Felsteel, which I have already dropped a glyph of the defender onto, and will proceed to gem. I'm guessing 2 SSoE's and a Flashing Living Ruby (+8 ParryR) or another SSoE?


I wouldn't worry about the socket bonus on the Felsteel Helm...+4 Hit Rating really isn't all that great. I would just put whatever gems in there that you feel would help you the most.

Also, the +8 Parry Rating gem isn't really that good, since there is a +8 Dodge Rating gem (also Red, Subtle Living Ruby I think) that gives you more avoidance (1 Dodge = 18.9 Dodge Rating, 1 Parry = ~23 Parry Rating IIRC).

Guillex wrote:
adese wrote:As for the boots...not many good options there, unfortunately. There are the Flesh Beast Metal Greaves (not sure of the exact name) from the escort quest in Mana-tombs, but if you've done that quest already there isn't much else that you can do. I used the Obsidian Clobstompers for a long time, just due to the crazy amount of stamina I could get on them until I got the Boots of Elusion in Kara.


Nope. I'm stuck with what I have now, unless the Clodstompers drop for me at some point. I suppose a Boar's Speed or Fortitude enchant on those? Actually, I have the Starcaller's Plated Stompers in my inventory, but it seems like too much of a tradeoff with what I have now ...

Plated Stompers: 722 armor, +21 stam, +14 int, +13 defR, +16 sd/heal
Wrought Greaves: 800 armor, +24 str, +21 agi, +22 stam, 2x SSoE

That gives me a bit of pause. I think I'll drop below the 11k mark if I put on the Stompers. Thoughts?


I'd stick with whichever of the two gives you more stamina, so the Wrought Greaves for now. I'd put Fortitude on those - it's a cheap enchant, and you can't complain about 12 more stamina.

Guillex wrote:
adese wrote:I'm not sure how it compares to the Delicate Eternium Ring, but the ring from the last boss in Arcatraz has some very nice stats on it - stamina, dodge, and defense.


I guess you're talking about the Elementium Band of the Sentry?
+24 stam, +20 defR, +19 dodgeR

compared to the Delicate Eternium Ring
+15 stam, +25 agi, +16 dodgeR

Hm... Don't think there's much comparison to be made, lol ... I guess I'll be farming both Arc and Bot for the shoulders and that ring. It's just a shame that I've already done the BM quest, and picked up the damned healing ring (which I never used). Same thing with the frigging escort quest in MT (Grrrrrr).


If it's any consolation, the only thing that ring is really good for is getting to uncrushable. Once you get better gear, the lack of stats on it really starts to hurt. So, once you get over that barrier, you shouldn't feel bad about not getting it.

Guillex wrote:
adese wrote:Also, your block% seems really low - if you can bump that up, you can generate much more threat from Holy Shield. It is also the cheapest way to get to uncrushable, which is also a priority.


I know, I've been seeing everyone else's at like 18% + .... And I'm sitting at 13%. I don't know how else I can start bumping that up. Seems like I'm two feet away from the finish line, but can't quite seem to make that last step for whatever reason. Anything else that I can swap out, or am I pretty much geared for everything before raiding at this point?


The trinket gives you another ~4% block, so that puts you up to around 18% with that item alone. While still a touch low, that is acceptable, and way better than 13%.

Guillex wrote:I can't wait for my trinket to drop ... That's going to be a huge step in the right direction for me. That, getting the last two badges that I need for the Libram, and starting on the enchants. Speaking of which, +150 health to chest is a better bet than +6 to all stats, generally speaking, correct? Also, cloak enchants ... armor or dodge?

Thanks for replying Adese. I'll be there quite soon, I'm sure.


Yeah, I always go with +150 health to chest. +6 to all stats gives 6.36 stamina w/ 2/2 Sacred Duty, while +150 health gives the equivalent of about 14 stamina w/ Sacred Duty.

For cloaks, since you are still trying to get uncrushable, I'd go for either +12 Agility or +12 Dodge Rating to increase your avoidance. The later can be hard to come by (currently only drops in AQ, rare mats), however as of 2.2 it will be on the faction vendors with level 70 mats, so it should be much easier to get then.
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Postby guillex » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:49 pm

Little update ... I just got the Figurine of the Colossus, then went to Bot, but no shoulders... :(

Enchanted my cloak with +12 agi. Closer, but hopefully the neverdrop cape and shoulders will come along soon.

Thanks for all your help adese. Will be there soon. :D

edit: My sig hasn't updated yet. Those aren't the right values.
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Postby adese » Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:32 am

Glad to help. :)

I found that once I got to uncrushable, gearing choices were much, much easier. Hang in there, things will get better gear wise soon. :)
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Postby guillex » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:07 pm

Alright ... Almost at uncrushable, but seeing as I'm not a number cruncher, I just want to throw this to you guys out there...

Will swapping out the following bring me to uncrushable?

Mithril-Bark Cloak -> Devilshark Cape

Doomplate Shoulderguards -> Spaulders of the Righteous

Libram of Repentance

I'm trying to stay away from the Bracers of the Green Fortress for right now, as I'm still kinda poor. :(

Also, if you see anything gimped, can you point it out? Thanks.
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Postby Blaen99 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:42 pm

Mithril Bark Cloak is terrible.

Go get a Cloak of Eternity. It's crafted and XXXX-tra cheap.

Get the socket bonus on your bracers. IIRC, it's yellow, which means 9 sta and 4 defense vs. 12 sta - 4 defense is definitely worth more than 3 sta.

You SoB, you got Moroes' belt. I have killed him for MONTHS and haven't seen it drop once - ever.

Get exalted with lower city ASAP. The mace from it is an ungodly tank weap (I'm Horde, I don't have SoV, it's better than the Stormcaller/Honor Hold equivalent and Continuum Blade for threat.)

Replace Gauntlets of Righteousness for Felsteel gloves ASAP. Gauntlets of Right blow unless you also have the spaulders - 2-piece Right is very very nice.
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Postby guillex » Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:58 pm

Blaen99 wrote:Mithril Bark Cloak is terrible.

Go get a Cloak of Eternity. It's crafted and XXXX-tra cheap.


Trying to get the damned Neverdrop Cloak to come my way. If it doesn't in the next couple of runs, I'll get the CoE.

Blaen99 wrote:Get the socket bonus on your bracers. IIRC, it's yellow, which means 9 sta and 4 defense vs. 12 sta - 4 defense is definitely worth more than 3 sta.


I have 490 defense already, so I've been trying to stack avoidance/stam now. Ever since I got the Colossus to replace my Badge, I've dropped a little over 300 hp (36stam, whatever that is), so I'm still trying to bump that up.

Blaen99 wrote:You SoB, you got Moroes' belt. I have killed him for MONTHS and haven't seen it drop once - ever.


Just like I haven't seen the boots drop from him ever ... or Light's Justice from Prince ... Yet I got both my t4 tokens in the same run and got the healing gear because I wasn't into prot yet? :(

Blaen99 wrote:Get exalted with lower city ASAP. The mace from it is an ungodly tank weap (I'm Horde, I don't have SoV, it's better than the Stormcaller/Honor Hold equivalent and Continuum Blade for threat.)


I knew I was going to have to run auch at some point ... but wow I really don't want to. If I can I'm going to try and get the Suneater, even though I realise that having the mace = +sd. Mleh. Decisions decisions.

Blaen99 wrote:Replace Gauntlets of Righteousness for Felsteel gloves ASAP. Gauntlets of Right blow unless you also have the spaulders - 2-piece Right is very very nice.


My agent is currently in negotiations with Laj on changing his drop rate to give me the damned spaulders. I need to get rid of those Doomplate ones... They're terrible, even with the damned chant. Also, if I drop the gloves I lose a bunch of threat generation.

Seeing as I messed up a bunch of quest drops because I was thinking pure Holy up until tuesday of this past week, I have to be kinda picky with what I get until I'm uncrushable. So yeah. But I'll work on things, for sure.

n.b.: Blaen's a good friend of mine, so he gets to call me a SoB. I know Vanifae will also, but it just won't be the same.
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Postby Blaen99 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:12 pm

Guillex wrote:
Blaen99 wrote:Mithril Bark Cloak is terrible.

Go get a Cloak of Eternity. It's crafted and XXXX-tra cheap.


Trying to get the damned Neverdrop Cloak to come my way. If it doesn't in the next couple of runs, I'll get the CoE.

Blaen99 wrote:Get the socket bonus on your bracers. IIRC, it's yellow, which means 9 sta and 4 defense vs. 12 sta - 4 defense is definitely worth more than 3 sta.


I have 490 defense already, so I've been trying to stack avoidance/stam now. Ever since I got the Colossus to replace my Badge, I've dropped a little over 300 hp (36stam, whatever that is), so I'm still trying to bump that up.


Defense is fine for avoidance. I posted numbers on these forums awhile back, but it's something like 0.12% avoidance + 0.04% block per point compared to 0.124% avoidance from dodge.

Blaen99 wrote:You SoB, you got Moroes' belt. I have killed him for MONTHS and haven't seen it drop once - ever.


Just like I haven't seen the boots drop from him ever ... or Light's Justice from Prince ... Yet I got both my t4 tokens in the same run and got the healing gear because I wasn't into prot yet? :(

Blaen99 wrote:Get exalted with lower city ASAP. The mace from it is an ungodly tank weap (I'm Horde, I don't have SoV, it's better than the Stormcaller/Honor Hold equivalent and Continuum Blade for threat.)


I knew I was going to have to run auch at some point ... but wow I really don't want to. If I can I'm going to try and get the Suneater, even though I realise that having the mace = +sd. Mleh. Decisions decisions.


Sun Eater is a special case use. The mace is general case. Get going in SH - it's easy.

Blaen99 wrote:Replace Gauntlets of Righteousness for Felsteel gloves ASAP. Gauntlets of Right blow unless you also have the spaulders - 2-piece Right is very very nice.


My agent is currently in negotiations with Laj on changing his drop rate to give me the damned spaulders. I need to get rid of those Doomplate ones... They're terrible, even with the damned chant. Also, if I drop the gloves I lose a bunch of threat generation.


I never saw the spaulders of the righteous untill I had T4 shoulders. That probably makes you feel so much better, eh? ;)

But your current ones are ass.

Seeing as I messed up a bunch of quest drops because I was thinking pure Holy up until tuesday of this past week, I have to be kinda picky with what I get until I'm uncrushable. So yeah. But I'll work on things, for sure.

n.b.: Blaen's a good friend of mine, so he gets to call me a SoB. I know Vanifae will also, but it just won't be the same.
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Postby guillex » Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:17 pm

Nice last quote? lol
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Postby Blaen99 » Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:19 pm

Guillex wrote:Nice last quote? lol


BTW, if you are serious about tanking, pick up engineering.
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Postby adese » Sun Aug 19, 2007 5:43 am

Blaen99 wrote:BTW, if you are serious about tanking, pick up engineering.


I wouldn't say that engineering is "required" in order to be a tank. Is the helm nice? Definitely, and that is incentive to go engineering. However, it's not like if you can't/don't want to switch to engineer you won't be able to tank. There are other helms in the game that are pretty good:
  • Felsteel Helm, which is pretty cheap to make (yes, you have it...just listing for completeness)
  • Helm of the Stalwart Defender, yeah the Resilience is fairly useless but you can get a ton of stamina and armor on it
  • Justicar Faceguard, the T4 helm is actually really good (especially once you are uncrushable with it on)
  • Faceguard of Determination, which has over 4% avoidance from the Dodge and Block alone is great when you are working towards uncrushable.
  • Eternium Greathelm, which is ok - if it drops and it's an upgrade for you, might as well grab it until you can get something better
  • Tankatronic Goggles, and here are the engineering goggles. These have a ton of stamina on them, but not much else.


I personally used the Faceguard of Determination for quite a while - until I got the T4 helm and didn't need it be be uncrushable anymore. It gives a ton of avoidance, and while it does cost 50 badges, it is worth the price IMO (if you are working towards uncrushable, anyway).
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Postby Blaen99 » Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:37 am

adese wrote:
Blaen99 wrote:BTW, if you are serious about tanking, pick up engineering.


I wouldn't say that engineering is "required" in order to be a tank. Is the helm nice? Definitely, and that is incentive to go engineering. However, it's not like if you can't/don't want to switch to engineer you won't be able to tank. There are other helms in the game that are pretty good:
  • Felsteel Helm, which is pretty cheap to make (yes, you have it...just listing for completeness)
  • Helm of the Stalwart Defender, yeah the Resilience is fairly useless but you can get a ton of stamina and armor on it
  • Justicar Faceguard, the T4 helm is actually really good (especially once you are uncrushable with it on)
  • Faceguard of Determination, which has over 4% avoidance from the Dodge and Block alone is great when you are working towards uncrushable.
  • Eternium Greathelm, which is ok - if it drops and it's an upgrade for you, might as well grab it until you can get something better
  • Tankatronic Goggles, and here are the engineering goggles. These have a ton of stamina on them, but not much else.

I personally used the Faceguard of Determination for quite a while - until I got the T4 helm and didn't need it be be uncrushable anymore. It gives a ton of avoidance, and while it does cost 50 badges, it is worth the price IMO (if you are working towards uncrushable, anyway).


You are forgetting the trinkets.

And the faceguard has nowhere near 4% avoidance. Block != avoidance.
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Postby jere » Sun Aug 19, 2007 1:04 pm

Blaen99 wrote:
You are forgetting the trinkets.

And the faceguard has nowhere near 4% avoidance. Block != avoidance.


He means "crushing blow" avoidance, not pure avoidance.

You can get stamina trinkets from other places besides Engineering. I have a 51 stamina one and a 45 stamina one and my professions are Blacksmithing and Mining (may swap it to enchanting).

Engineering is not required to be a serious tank, but it does provide some good options.
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