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Why do so many people get blessing of kings?

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Postby Worldie » Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:12 am

4 letters caboom

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Postby Levantine » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:18 am

caboom wrote:
Levantine wrote:Caboom, do you have any idea at all how powerful 8% crit is to a Holy Paladin?

In Wrath Haste is terrible, and Crit is a Holy Paladin's king stat.

At 70 Prot and Holy pick up Kings, at 80 it's Ret and Prot.


Why is haste terrible in wrath since holy is getting a 15% haste buff up in it's own talent tree ?!?! your not making any sense...
And why is a haste terrible on a class that almost exclusively relies on using every available GCD ?
Where are you getting ur 8% from, i see only 5% there in the talent, and you would spend 15 talent points for 5% crit ?

About ret and prot, i would say, since i am gonna be ret, i will have kings, but i would not advise my felow tankadins doing 25 mans raiding to spec into it.


Conviction + Sanctified Seals.

And yes, in my Paladin's Holy spec, I will be spending the points for this crit.

Two Improved Blessings + 8% Crit (which is vitally important in Wrath for Paladins. As I said, Haste is an outdated stat to gear for) + 3% Raid Crit (she'll be doing 10mans almost exclusively) + 10% reduced mana cost on Seals, Judgements, Cleanse and Holy Shock.

Your Blessing of Kings can get fucked. No way am I giving up 3% crit and Improved Wisdom.
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Postby caboom » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:26 am

Levantine wrote:
caboom wrote:
Levantine wrote:Caboom, do you have any idea at all how powerful 8% crit is to a Holy Paladin?

In Wrath Haste is terrible, and Crit is a Holy Paladin's king stat.

At 70 Prot and Holy pick up Kings, at 80 it's Ret and Prot.


Why is haste terrible in wrath since holy is getting a 15% haste buff up in it's own talent tree ?!?! your not making any sense...
And why is a haste terrible on a class that almost exclusively relies on using every available GCD ?
Where are you getting ur 8% from, i see only 5% there in the talent, and you would spend 15 talent points for 5% crit ?

About ret and prot, i would say, since i am gonna be ret, i will have kings, but i would not advise my felow tankadins doing 25 mans raiding to spec into it.


Conviction + Sanctified Seals.

And yes, in my Paladin's Holy spec, I will be spending the points for this crit.

Two Improved Blessings + 8% Crit (which is vitally important in Wrath for Paladins. As I said, Haste is an outdated stat to gear for) + 3% Raid Crit (she'll be doing 10mans almost exclusively) + 10% reduced mana cost on Seals, Judgements, Cleanse and Holy Shock.

Your Blessing of Kings can get fucked. No way am I giving up 3% crit and Improved Wisdom.


I won't comment on holy builds further, since i feel out of my league here, my statement on prots still stands however and i've said my thoughts on rets.

However could you be so kind as to share the holy talent build you're considering ? :lol:
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Postby Levantine » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:39 am

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Postby uke » Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:48 am

At level 70, I can't spare 5 points for kings as ret (both PVE or PVP builds) without noticably gimping my other + %dmg or crit dmg talents.

At level 80, I should have points to spare at least in PVE for kings, but not until then. PVP is still going to be tight, as I'll be using just enough points to get improved HoJ in Prot, which are going to Divine Str, Stoicism, Divine Favor, and Toughness on the way down.
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Postby Tyaera » Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:57 pm

However Kings is not quite as necessary in a pvp build as it is in a raiding build, and if you're raiding as PvP spec and using that as the excuse not to get kings, you're doing it wrong
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Postby Kracus » Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:43 am

caboom wrote:..not using kings.. and neither i will at 80, why ? reason is simple in a raid environment i want to be a better TANK not a better BUFFER, it is also the view that is agreed uppon(an was sugested) by my tank team and my raid leader.

Lvl 80 prot could further enhance their tanking abilities by skiping kings. (this is how i see the min/maxed lvl 80 prot : http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZ0xVAcuMteIRGovo )


First off I want to say that I feel your reasoning in that first section is just talk and excuses to make you feel justified without any real reason.

Every time I see people complaining about bloat in the tree I get puzzled cause I find myself taking everything I want and not knowing where to put the rest of the points.

Why can't you be a better tank and buffer?

But just to go off your example build, benediction? That'll make you a better tank? I'm not running out of mana while tanking unless I'm spamming a bunch of undead/demon abilities just to play around on the damage meter or I'm bored. I considered it when these trees first started coming out cause it was in my pre-patch build. But with all the mana regen from varying classes and Divine Plea/LoH, those 4 points are floater points and better spent in BoK.

Not trying to convince you otherwise, but if you don't want to take kings then just say that and don't make excuses for it. If someone else is going to have it in the raid then good, you at least realize it is highly useful for progression. If no kings in the...well I'd rather not comment.

And I'm not sure who brought this up, but kings is useful all around for any class/spec. Rogues, increased dps, Warlocks, Spirit and Stam for lifetapping and extra bit of crit, Mages, Crit and Spirit, Priests, Spirit and crit - possibly even stam for SW:D (don't have a priest so the exact mechanic escapes me), Warrior, increased dps, Shaman and Druid, increased dps, regen etc, DK increased dps. Stam for all in progression raiding for survival, AE damage ftl, and for tanking. Kings on us means more threat via stam and str.

edit: AH HA found it, kept glancing over it, improved HoJ will make you a better tank?
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Postby Einmyria » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:40 am

We had this very same discussion in my guild. The agreement we reached, seeing as how we have one holy, one ret and one prot paladin raiding regularly was that the Ret pally takes kings, the holy takes imp might and I take only BoSanc.

That way we end up with a lot of flexibility as all tanks get both kings and Sanctuary and imp Might.
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Postby knaughty » Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:08 pm

Einmyria wrote:We had this very same discussion in my guild. The agreement we reached, seeing as how we have one holy, one ret and one prot paladin raiding regularly was that the Ret pally takes kings, the holy takes imp might and I take only BoSanc.

That way we end up with a lot of flexibility as all tanks get both kings and Sanctuary and imp Might.

If you can squeeze Imp Might into your build, that will give you slightly better blessings overall.

EG: Shaman end up with Imp might, Imp Wis & Kings, instead of only one of might/wis being improved.

Just make sure your Ret pally has 100% attendance!
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Postby caboom » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:17 am

Kracus wrote:
caboom wrote:..not using kings.. and neither i will at 80, why ? reason is simple in a raid environment i want to be a better TANK not a better BUFFER, it is also the view that is agreed uppon(an was sugested) by my tank team and my raid leader.

Lvl 80 prot could further enhance their tanking abilities by skiping kings. (this is how i see the min/maxed lvl 80 prot : http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=sVZ0xVAcuMteIRGovo )


First off I want to say that I feel your reasoning in that first section is just talk and excuses to make you feel justified without any real reason.

Every time I see people complaining about bloat in the tree I get puzzled cause I find myself taking everything I want and not knowing where to put the rest of the points.

Why can't you be a better tank and buffer?

But just to go off your example build, benediction? That'll make you a better tank? I'm not running out of mana while tanking unless I'm spamming a bunch of undead/demon abilities just to play around on the damage meter or I'm bored. I considered it when these trees first started coming out cause it was in my pre-patch build. But with all the mana regen from varying classes and Divine Plea/LoH, those 4 points are floater points and better spent in BoK.

Not trying to convince you otherwise, but if you don't want to take kings then just say that and don't make excuses for it. If someone else is going to have it in the raid then good, you at least realize it is highly useful for progression. If no kings in the...well I'd rather not comment.

And I'm not sure who brought this up, but kings is useful all around for any class/spec. Rogues, increased dps, Warlocks, Spirit and Stam for lifetapping and extra bit of crit, Mages, Crit and Spirit, Priests, Spirit and crit - possibly even stam for SW:D (don't have a priest so the exact mechanic escapes me), Warrior, increased dps, Shaman and Druid, increased dps, regen etc, DK increased dps. Stam for all in progression raiding for survival, AE damage ftl, and for tanking. Kings on us means more threat via stam and str.

edit: AH HA found it, kept glancing over it, improved HoJ will make you a better tank?


First of all you may have your opinion about what i did or did not say, i've made my point and i stated my views on the matter.

Basically they are :
1) For 5/10 men kings is a good idea/must.
2) For 25 men kings is a good idea if with a pug and questionable if with your guild.

I gave myself as an exemple because my guild regularily has 3 or more paladins in any given raid.

@the issues u brought with my exemple lvl 80 build :

1) ok benediction is prolly questionable, get imp might or anything else that *suites you*
2) and about HoJ, at least in my playstyle it is the only skill in my arsenal besides RD that saved countless wipes in 5/10 men, and look at it this way, if ur not getting kings what are you taking? pvp talens? DG?
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Postby Kracus » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:25 pm

caboom wrote:First of all you may have your opinion about what i did or did not say, i've made my point and i stated my views on the matter.

Basically they are :
1) For 5/10 men kings is a good idea/must.
2) For 25 men kings is a good idea if with a pug and questionable if with your guild.

I gave myself as an exemple because my guild regularily has 3 or more paladins in any given raid.

@the issues u brought with my exemple lvl 80 build :

1) ok benediction is prolly questionable, get imp might or anything else that *suites you*
2) and about HoJ, at least in my playstyle it is the only skill in my arsenal besides RD that saved countless wipes in 5/10 men, and look at it this way, if ur not getting kings what are you taking? pvp talens? DG?


For #2, najentus comes to mind and pretty much being under 10k health could lose you a few people at full health. The same thing for #1 going back to early progression in kara on say Shade or in ZA on most all of the boss fights, so I'm not sure what the difference is for you.

1) I wasn't asking you what are better spent points. Maybe I didn't explain my point clearly, happens often, that you comment about being a "better tank" and include not having kings in that statement. Then I find you spec benediction over kings.

2) I use HoJ as well, not a playstyle figure imo, it is a Class style that everyone knows and does. In cases when I use it is is only for the healer and that is typically cause I haven't generated threat yet. If some dps does then question why they weren't watching their threat and should learn from a death or two.

And yes they are my opinions/views, just like yours are opinions/views, no different. As I said, you sound like you are trying to convince yourself of this decision you made. When imo as a raid leader you should be firm in your decision and not need to come here to bring it up and get approval. Horde didn't have Kings for a very long time and look who cleared naxx AQ40 first. This isn't just with the kings debate, any class that I've played and taken the time to understand and learn I've seen discussions just like that with people trying to argue away something that is highly accepted among the community.

Again, Kings is highly useful and there isn't any disagreement on that. I'm surprised they haven't already stickied something and stopped all these threads saying the same thing about kings.
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