Remove Advertisements

SotP vs Kings @ 80

How to get started.

Moderators: Fridmarr, Worldie, Aergis, lythac

Postby majiben » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:14 am

I want you to show concrete examples of where you need a 30 second interupt to survive when a 1 minute one won't do. As a bonus you could also include one that can't be cced.

3 talent points is a lot to pay for something that is unreliable, not needed in raids and has a very small chance of ever being needed for a 5 man.
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Postby vschiano2008 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:54 pm

dont interrupt! take the damage, let the healer heal and give you moar mana.

find a reliable healbot, push them to their limits, and if you go too far, you've got a shield wall now!
Image
vschiano2008
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:10 am

Postby fuzzygeek » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:41 pm

vschiano2008 wrote:dont interrupt! take the damage, let the healer heal and give you moar mana.

find a reliable healbot, push them to their limits, and if you go too far, you've got a shield wall now!


This is fine, as long as not interrupting damage doesn't get you killed.
Image
User avatar
fuzzygeek
Maintankadonor
 
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:58 pm

Postby tbolt » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:54 pm

Darus wrote:
Kayoto wrote:Neither!

Go with Conviction instead.

0/56/15 ftw. :O


shitspecc =P


Haha, ironic that the spec he (Kayoto) suggested is looking pretty good now and probably what I'm going towards. With the piss poor damage SoV is doing now, I see no reason to spend 5 talent points to make it 15% less crappy when I can increase the crit chance of all my abilities by 5% instead.
tbolt
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:08 pm

Postby Bobness » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:34 am

I must admit I am considering a 0/56/15 spec...

SOTP seems a pretty Lacklustre 5 points, whilst I wouldn't go for gear with crit on it getting (6+3+5) from Talents doesn't seem that bad to me.

Is SOTP better than a situationally useful 8% Crit (5% if u have a ret Paladin)

Particularly... what if u have a Solid Weapon & a truck load of BV ?
Image
Bobness
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:42 pm

Postby majiben » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:38 am

Sotp still wins from a tps perspective. What many people seem to be forgetting is that SotP affects both the seals and judgements. Now crit is better for off dps or off healing. Both choices are acceptable as long as you are doing it for the right reasons.
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Postby tbolt » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:32 am

Majiben wrote:Sotp still wins from a tps perspective. What many people seem to be forgetting is that SotP affects both the seals and judgements. Now crit is better for off dps or off healing. Both choices are acceptable as long as you are doing it for the right reasons.


Are you sure about this or have any numbers for it? I don't have any math but my thinking is that even one ShoR crit will cover a few rotations of improved SoV seals and judges. Also considering that right now judgments are probably the least threat heavy move in our rotation and most likely to be dropped in case of conflicts or demon/undead mobs, I'm inclined to look at conviction as the tps improving talent.
tbolt
 
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:08 pm

Postby majiben » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:36 am

Psiven ran the numbers. Some thing like a 2.8% increase for 5% crit and 3.X % for SotP.
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Postby majiben » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:44 am

PsiVen wrote:This time around, I changed AS to replace every 4th judgement. It's probably a more realistic implementation of AS into a rotation, and is probably optimal as well but I didn't check.

As predicted, the coefficient nerfs mean that spell power weapons have finally fallen from grace, even with 5/5 SotP. The Titansteel Bonecrusher is now quite certainly (~60 TPS) better than the Guardian.

Code: Select all
Titansteel Bonecrusher N-Target TPS (Stats Value Added)

         Single  Double Triple
10 STR   19.2    14.8   13.3
15 SBV   11.6     5.8    3.9
20 AP    11.5     9.9    9.4
10 HIT    7.2     4.6    3.7
10 EXP    6.9     5.3    4.8
10 CRIT   5.2     3.3    2.6
12 SP     4.7     3.8    3.5
10 AGI    4.5     2.9    2.3
15 STA    2.2     1.7    1.6
10 HASTE  1.1     0.6    0.4
BASE     3715    2902   2631


In other words, the weighted TPS stat comparison now stands:
Code: Select all
Single Target
STR  100.0%
SBV   60.5%
AP    59.8%
HIT   37.6%
EXP   36.2%
CRIT  26.9%
SP    24.5%
AGI   23.7%
STA   11.2%
HASTE  5.9%

Double Target Per Target
STR  100.0%
AP    66.9%
SBV   39.2%
EXP   36.1%
HIT   30.7%
SP    25.7%
CRIT  22.0%
AGI   19.4%
STA   11.7%
HASTE  3.8%

Triple Target Per Target
STR   100.0%
AP     70.3%
EXP    36.1%
SBV    29.0%
HIT    27.4%
SP     26.2%
CRIT   19.6%
AGI    17.3%
STA    12.0%
HASTE   2.8%


Without regard for other talent points required, here's the direct comparison people were looking for:
Base: 3560.1
SotP: 3715.1
Conviction: 3674.3

Conviction still sucks.
http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/posting.php?mode=quote&p=290130
Amirya wrote:some bizarre lovechild of Hawking, Einstein, and Theck
User avatar
majiben
Moderator
 
Posts: 6999
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 4:37 pm
Location: Retired

Postby Bobness » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:12 am

I'll have a look at that thread... Still not convinced tbh..

I would have thought that the scaling potential of

Str/BV would make an additional (5%/8%) crit start to look a lot more attractive

as melee/Hotr/Shor get better doesn't Sotp just get worse ?

I'd imagine most of our other abilites are scaling a lot better than SOV/JOV
Image
Bobness
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:42 pm

Postby Rhî » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:40 am

Don't rely on those numbers. They are changing with your gear, spec, tank rotation and enemy alot.
Image
Rhî
 
Posts: 305
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:41 am

Postby Bobness » Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:45 am

Ok doing rough calcs only it does appear that Sotp beats out 5% crit for TPS, but probably not DPS..... I'd guess this may change when we start to get hold of gear that we haven't seen yet.

I'm quite surprised by that...still I do like seeing crits... hmmm not sure what to do now

/sigh
Image
Bobness
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:42 pm

Previous

Return to Basic Training & Talents

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Remove Advertisements

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 380 on Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:28 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest