Dumping Reckoning

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Dumping Reckoning

Postby Everlight » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:22 pm

So, I picked up Despair last night. It's driven me to a little bit of re-evaluation about my spec - namely I'm considering dropping a point in Reckoning for Seal of Command to help with my soloing.

I don't really think that dropping a point in Reckoning will have a major impact in my raid threat generation - even in AOE scenarios. Checking out my threat output from a Karazhan combat log, Reckoning contributes only a tiny percentage of my total threat. But, where I'm going with this is a bit further...

Should I consider dropping reckoning entirely, and picking up Weapon Expertise? Or 3/3 Imp. SotC? I've already got Precision, but some extra weapon skill would be handy.

Any thoughts?
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Postby SmurfZG » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:54 pm

reckoning is pure awesome for solo grinding, so I can't see why you'd want to drop that.
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Postby Everlight » Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:06 pm

SmurfZG wrote:reckoning is pure awesome for solo grinding, so I can't see why you'd want to drop that.


I don't solo grind. Hell, come to think of it, I don't do anything completely solo. Having a wife who plays a 33/28 Feral Druid is handy :P
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Re: Dumping Reckoning

Postby SmurfZG » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:13 am

Ok :p I guess I was misled by this

Everlight wrote: I'm considering dropping a point in Reckoning for Seal of Command to help with my soloing.
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Postby Lore » Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:57 am

Weapon Expertise is pretty awesome, but by the time it actually becomes helpful you need every bit of threat you can get.

Imp JotC might end up being similar or better for your threat gen in the long run though, if you use it. Come to think of it, I should try that.
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Postby Prepared » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:05 am

Lore wrote:Weapon Expertise is pretty awesome, but by the time it actually becomes helpful you need every bit of threat you can get.

Imp JotC might end up being similar or better for your threat gen in the long run though, if you use it. Come to think of it, I should try that.


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Postby elsydeon » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:42 am

reckoning is nice for a few things

1. its prot points, thus giving points for things with 35+ req points (like AS, one of the best paly skills). lower tier holy and ret trees are kinda thin on good prot talents and some prot talents are useless (+10 weapon skill is nowhere near as useful as 5% extra dmg just for useing a 1h weapon)

2. its extra attacks, this means more procs, especially since the procadin and Paladins Rely On Chance jokes are quite accurate; that also helps threat since if you get healing procs that's YOUR threat and not your healer's

3. it looks cool:)
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Re: Dumping Reckoning

Postby Everlight » Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:24 pm

SmurfZG wrote:Ok :p I guess I was misled by this


True. When I say 'soloing', I generally mean 'not in a raid tanking' :P

Good points on WE, Lore. That's just what I was thinking. In particular, I've been hearing some stuff about how WE really helps things like SoV...

Not that I use SoV a whole lot, but I do use it on Curator after the first Evocation.

elsydeon wrote:1. its prot points, thus giving points for things with 35+ req points (like AS, one of the best paly skills). lower tier holy and ret trees are kinda thin on good prot talents and some prot talents are useless (+10 weapon skill is nowhere near as useful as 5% extra dmg just for useing a 1h weapon)


I have 49 points in Protection, and thus can discard quite a lot of points and still be able to get to the top of the tree. I also have 1H Spec anyway, and I wouldn't drop that no matter what.

Truth be told, Reckoning does not go off a whole lot for me in the fights where it counts. For example, last Kara run I received 2808 attempted attacks, and Reckoning went off 90 times. That's only a 3.2% proc rate, which is pretty dismal for 5 talent points...
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Postby Nich » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:28 pm

Personally, SoC + Reckoning can be fun when not tanking in a raid.

As for WEx, I'd probably only spend spare points in it until I had +10 including my human racial, and only if what I read is true, about there being a different chance to not be parried etc, when your weapon skill is over 10.
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Postby Girard » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:10 am

Since my guild has a core of about 3-5 paladin healers EVERY raid, and 2 of them have kings, I've decided to pass up kings in favour of another use for that point.. and really not so sure Reckoning is worth the effort. As yer mitigation goes up, the actual viability of it goes down (and since I tank with SoV, more weapon swings serves me no real benefit other than more white damage)

One of the specs I've considered is:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=qZVhxIx0dMgqzVfx00c
for a total of +18% damage (and ergo, at least an 18% threat increase, if not more!)

Also out on the table is:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=qZVhxIx0dMgqtVbxz
For increased reliability in threat
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Postby Lore » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:33 am

Girard wrote:One of the specs I've considered is:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=qZVhxIx0dMgqzVfx00c
for a total of +18% damage (and ergo, at least an 18% threat increase, if not more!)


Eh, that's not really +18% damage. The 3% from Crusade is a direct damage increase, yes, but increasing your JotC by 15% just means you get 28 more +spell damage out of it.
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Postby Girard » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:50 am

Lore wrote:Eh, that's not really +18% damage. The 3% from Crusade is a direct damage increase, yes, but increasing your JotC by 15% just means you get 28 more +spell damage out of it.


Touche, I admit my mistake there. That's about what, 13 or so TPS?
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Postby Lore » Wed Aug 15, 2007 6:55 am

I'll have to dig up the threat number thread again, it seems like consecration alone would make 28 spell damage be worth pretty close to 28 TPS.

EDIT: Duh, it's spread out over 8 seconds. Anyway yeah you're right.
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Postby jere » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:05 am

while not exact, a good rule of thumb is

0.5 spell dmg ~= 1 TPS
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Postby John Ra » Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:05 am

Everlight wrote:
SmurfZG wrote:reckoning is pure awesome for solo grinding, so I can't see why you'd want to drop that.


I don't solo grind. Hell, come to think of it, I don't do anything completely solo. Having a wife who plays a 33/28 Feral Druid is handy :P
Not to say that her feral spec isn't good DPS, but you need a wife who plays a mage or shadow priest. You two would be unstoppable.
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