Kings

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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:06 am

trellian wrote:To me it's easy.

I spec kings because:
Incase I'm the only paladin attending (besides our holy one which will never have kings, period), buffing your healers and dps with +10% stats will benifit progression kills more then buffing them with -3% dmg.

I find progression kills to be more of a dps-depending fight then mitigation. Therefore on progression kills I (used to, pre-3.0) gear for threat instead of avoidance just to give my dps more room to nuke fast and nuke hard.

I expect WotLK raiding to be similar or more of a threat>mitigation on progression since fights are going to be a lot more about mobility and 'dont stand in the aoe' then plain tank and spank. Being mobile gimps us on threat more then it gimps us on avoidance.

Hence, I will spec kings if my ret pala cannot attend. This will still give me the flexibilty of buffing myself with either bosanc or kings.

Choice is good!
Threat set for progression is kinda... backwards logic o.o Usually the main concern is that the boss is, like, flapping you around and against the wall like an empty paper bag(or a paper bag full of smelly content)

but yeah
Kings > All
Sanc > All but kings(unless it's overgeared content)
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Postby tuberon » Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:04 am

Let's try phrasing it in a new and different way *note, this is impossible*

When to use:

Kings: You may die.

Sanc: You may die because the raid leader comes to your house to stab you because you outgear the content and aren't taking enough damage for SA to keep your mana up.

Of course, then you get the fun stuff, my GL is a prot pally, I'm the #2 tank. We roll with kings AND sanc.
Warning: Above poster makes no claims to validity or sanity of said post.

Also... cake.
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Postby Deflect » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:00 am

Valerius wrote:Seriously? Sanctuary is the main tanking Blessing in the game... Why would you not want 3% Damage Reduction and Mana return on Blocks, Parries, Dodges and Misses?


Seriously...
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Postby Kellern » Fri Nov 07, 2008 9:01 am

Lets just do away with kings all together.

Blessing of Constitutional Government ftw!
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Postby Snake-Aes » Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:46 pm

I don't want to elect my buff!
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Postby Zorminster » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:24 am

Kellern wrote:Lets just do away with kings all together.

Blessing of Constitutional Government ftw!


LoL.

I finally respecced to pickup kings. We'd been raiding without it since i formed my guild.... it makes a huge difference and i run it on every boss. Sanc on trash. Now i just need to recruit another pally willing to pickup kings....
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Postby mazater » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:55 pm

I'm not going to spec kings....about....ever, unless I go retri.

Since I'm selfish and arrogant bastard who doesn't care about the buffs for rest of the 24 people.

And I like my 7% additional crit. (10% incase I'm the only one applying the 3% crit buff on mobs)
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Postby DocJewl » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:16 pm

People seem to be basing this as a fight:

Kings
vs.
Sanctuary

At which point Kings will win.
but,
That's not what the disscusion needs to cover. It's a fight between

Kings and unlikely Sanctuary
vs.
Sanctuary, 5 more talents, and very possibly kings

What are you missing out on from those 5 more talents?
Why haven't you, (or your raid leader) mandated someone get kings?

Right now as Prot I do not get kings. At level 70 I lose out on far too much other stuff. At 80 I may re-evaluate that, although I still don't think it should be the smain tanks job to have kings due to losing 5 talent points that may be spent elsewhere. For the main tank you can't afford to sacrifice that. It would be much better for one of the 6 healers to sacrifice a little crit, or one of the 15 dps to sacrfice a little damage in order to insure the main tank has both sanctuary and kings as well as 5 other talents.
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Postby majiben » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:01 pm

Pardon but please tell me what you are missing out on to get kings?


From the sound of your post you think your well being is paramount while other paladins should sacrafice known healing/dps talents so you can pick up nebulous talents that help you do what?
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Postby elfjorc » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:11 pm

I have Kings at 70 with no problems whatsoever. IDK why that's supposed to be too hard.
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Postby DocJewl » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:19 pm

Majiben wrote:Pardon but please tell me what you are missing out on to get kings?


From the sound of your post you think your well being is paramount while other paladins should sacrafice known healing/dps talents so you can pick up nebulous talents that help you do what?


Now this is speaking like a permanent off tank. I don't care if you spend them in underwater basket weaving. Having the main tank with both sanc and kings as well as +5 talents is always going to be better than 1 of the 6 healers or one of the 15 dps loseing out on 5 talents.

It's basic numbers kings is much worse than kings + sac + 5 talent points in other prot related talents.
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Postby elfjorc » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:24 pm

DocJewl wrote:Now this is speaking like a permanent off tank. I don't care if you spend them in underwater basket weaving. Having the main tank with both sanc and kings as well as +5 talents is always going to be better than 1 of the 6 healers or one of the 15 dps loseing out on 5 talents.

It's basic numbers kings is much worse than kings + sac + 5 talent points in other prot related talents.


Lawl??

Main tanking a hard hitting boss is when you'd prefer Kings over Sanc if you can't get both.

What other prot related talents can you not pick up while getting Kings??
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Postby DocJewl » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:27 pm

elfjorc wrote:...if you can't get both.


Exactly. Make sure you get both.
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Postby elfjorc » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:28 pm

DocJewl wrote:
elfjorc wrote:...if you can't get both.


Exactly. Make sure you get both.


Yeah, we'll just have to take two pallies into every 10-man? Oh, and make sure the ones in the 25-man raid groups never fall sick or go on holiday or do anything irl. Or have connection problems, get kicked offline cause of weather/natural disasters. And those are the Pallies that have the Imp Blessings, I guess we should never use those for, ya know, raid dps or anything?

Going back to this then :
What other prot related talents can you not pick up while getting Kings??
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Postby majiben » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:32 pm

Not buffing the physical dps with kings from the prot paladin instead of the holy/ret results in a huge net dps loss across the raid due to the lack of improved might.
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