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My New Healing / OT Spec (30/31/0)

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My New Healing / OT Spec (30/31/0)

Postby sangre » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:42 am

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=aVVhbg0hxZVGtIx0zM0o

I've respecced to this build with the following goals:

1. Being able to tank 5-man content, and sufficiently serve as an off-tank in Kara when we are short on tanks.

2. Serve as a second or raid healer in Kara and beyond. I'm not looking to be the main healer since we have sufficient priests in our setup, so basically my job involves spamming FoL for extended periods of time.

My tanking gear, with only one epic (Vambraces of Courage), currently puts me at 496 defense, 11k armor, and 9.5k health. I'm still a long way from uncrushable, sitting somewhere around 44.5% MDPB.

The only change I might make is to drop a point of Holy Power/Sanctified Light into Divine Favor, but with tanking I enjoy having the extra 1% holy crit chance. The point may come from Sanctified Light since I don't find myself using Holy Light all that often, and I'd rather have the guaranteed crit when I do.

I'd appreciate any comments or advice. I am well aware that this build does neither Tanking nor Healing as well as a focused build, but its utility is what I'm after.
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Postby Baelor » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:27 am

I like my build for exactly the reasons you respecced to yours. Holy up to Illumination for raid healing in support, and 41 in prot for almost all the goodies, missing out only on 1H spec and the +hit.

Click on the image in my sig for a link to my armory, you can find my talent spread there. Or go to the "The Baelor Special" thread, where I've got a wowhead link.
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Postby honorshammer » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:42 am

What level of gear do need before you can give up the 5% parry from Ret and be uncrushable?
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Postby Baelor » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:54 am

Honorshammer wrote:What level of gear do need before you can give up the 5% parry from Ret and be uncrushable?

I was able to do it with mostly blues and a few epics. Careful gear selection, matching your sockets with correct color gems (Subtle Living Rubies and Enduring Talasites) for some extra avoidance/block and the socket bonuses (usually +def rating) and heavy emphasis on block rating can get you to uncrushable very easily. I think I had my engineering goggles, the Crest of Sha'tar, and my Bracers of the Green Fortress as my only epic pieces. Other gear choices included:

Felsteel Gloves
Dath'Remar's Ring of Defense
Elementium Band of the Sentry
Jade Skull Breastplate
Sha'tari Vindicator's Waistguard
Flesh Beast's Metal Greaves

You get the picture. You won't have 12k life, but you'll be uncrushable and have >10k if you enchant and gem stuff up correctly. Look for stuff heavy on defense, dodge, and especially block rating. I had something like 27% block in that set and 18-19% dodge.

However, if you're mainly a tank Honors, don't drop parry. The 5% extra avoidance is very helpful if you spend >75% of your time tanking.
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Postby Thels » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:01 am

Wouldn't something like this be better: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=aVVubxzhestVrth

It's more or less the build I have when I'm holy for one reason or another. In Heroics you don't need to be crush immune, so you can do without the 102.4%. Instead of pushing my gear to the max avoidance, I equip as much stamina as I can, to make it easier on my healer to heal the heavier damage that I'm taking.

It also works more or less in Karazhan. I had no problems tanking Karazhan in this spec, but then again, we just farm it.
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Postby sangre » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:11 am

Thels wrote:Wouldn't something like this be better: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=aVVubxzhestVrth

It's more or less the build I have when I'm holy for one reason or another. In Heroics you don't need to be crush immune, so you can do without the 102.4%. Instead of pushing my gear to the max avoidance, I equip as much stamina as I can, to make it easier on my healer to heal the heavier damage that I'm taking.

It also works more or less in Karazhan. I had no problems tanking Karazhan in this spec, but then again, we just farm it.


I could see that working, but I'd have to wait until I'm geared up more since I think the max HP I could push out of my sockets would be in the 11k range.
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Postby Baelor » Fri Aug 03, 2007 8:15 am

Thels wrote:Wouldn't something like this be better: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=aVVubxzhestVrth

It's more or less the build I have when I'm holy for one reason or another. In Heroics you don't need to be crush immune, so you can do without the 102.4%. Instead of pushing my gear to the max avoidance, I equip as much stamina as I can, to make it easier on my healer to heal the heavier damage that I'm taking.

It also works more or less in Karazhan. I had no problems tanking Karazhan in this spec, but then again, we just farm it.

I personally hate tanking without Holy Shield, even if it's non-raid instances. I tanked a normal Black Morass with a 43/18/0 spec and while it was successful, I didn't have nearly the threat gen I usually do and I was noticeably squishier, thought not so much so to screw the run up.

It's workable, but I really prefer 20/41/0, since I've found that it *is* capable of off-healing and main-tanking, while 43/18/0 is the reverse - capable of main-healing and off-tanking. Different emphasis.
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Postby Thels » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:33 am

A 20/41/0 is neither a full healing, nor a full tanking spec. It's neither meat nor fish. I'd never spec something like that.
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Postby Baelor » Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:06 am

Thels wrote:A 20/41/0 is neither a full healing, nor a full tanking spec. It's neither meat nor fish. I'd never spec something like that.

Well, the OP was considering a spec that is neither full healing nor full tanking as well. I wasn't asking you to respec, Thels :wink: Just letting Sangre know that as far as tank/heal split builds go, there's other options floating around, and I've found success with this particular one.
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Postby Thels » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:01 pm

But does a 20/41/0 build really offer stuff that the 43/18/0 build doesn't? The only real mitigation talent in there is Holy Shield, and that's only actually succesfull if you gear for crush immunity. Without Retri, getting crush immune lowers your stamina/survivability even more. I daresay you might be able to survive better with way more armor and stamina and ignoring crush immunity.

Threatwise it's laughable. The end of holy helps out a lot on threat, and Divine Int and Divine Illu even help keeping your mana pool up, so you can spam more aggro skills. Also don't forget Blessed Life. Helps quite a bit on incoming damage.
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Postby Baelor » Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:49 am

Thels wrote:But does a 20/41/0 build really offer stuff that the 43/18/0 build doesn't? The only real mitigation talent in there is Holy Shield, and that's only actually succesfull if you gear for crush immunity. Without Retri, getting crush immune lowers your stamina/survivability even more. I daresay you might be able to survive better with way more armor and stamina and ignoring crush immunity.

Threatwise it's laughable. The end of holy helps out a lot on threat, and Divine Int and Divine Illu even help keeping your mana pool up, so you can spam more aggro skills. Also don't forget Blessed Life. Helps quite a bit on incoming damage.

Threatwise it is *not* laughable, I'm not sure why you say this. You have all the threat generation of a 0/49/12 build, minus Improved Judgment (and 1H spec if you choose Ardent Defender or something instead). A sizeable amount of threat comes from Holy Shield, especially improved, and Reckoning (if specced for it) does add a bit of burst with SoR up. I don't have hard numbers for you, but nor have I seen hard numbers for threat gen with a 43/18/0 build. All I know is that Ardent Defender saves lives, Sacred Duty's stam boost is great, Avenger's Shield is a great opener/pull tool/burst threat gen skill, and I hate tanking without Holy Shield.
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Postby Thels » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:23 am

Divine Favor - Holy Shock is far from a crap opener. SoR gets extra damage. You got extra mana to work with and Holy Guidance gives extra spelldamage for more aggro. I never had problems keeping the aggro with a Holy build.
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Postby Baelor » Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:08 pm

Thels wrote:Divine Favor - Holy Shock is far from a crap opener. SoR gets extra damage. You got extra mana to work with and Holy Guidance gives extra spelldamage for more aggro. I never had problems keeping the aggro with a Holy build.

I wasn't claiming anything about the quality of the opener that is DF-HS.

The thing I take issue with is your claims about extra spell damage and more mana to work with. Yes, you get 10% increased Intellect and 35% of your INT contributes to spell damage, but most tank gear (unless we're referring to tier sets or dungeon set 3) won't have INT on it, rendering that contribution minimal. The aggro from a Holy paladin is a lot more spikey and inconsistent, and the damage mitigation is lower without Holy Shield.

I am *not* claiming that Holy builds *cannot* tank. My claim is only that the top of the prot tree, despite some people's opinions of the talents individually, is not underwhelming, and very contributive to tanking, Holy Shield especially. My experience with the 2 builds was simply that I had better threat (not saying 43/18/0 has bad threat, just better) with a 20/41/0 build rather than a 43/18/0 build, and that the top of the prot tree is very helpful for tanking - I missed it sorely the few times I've tanked as Holy.
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Postby Thels » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:00 pm

True, 20/41/0 is better than 43/18/0 for tanking, but the difference ain't that big.

Me personally, if I spec to heal, I spec 43/18/0, so I'll be the best at what I specced for. If I want to be a decent tank, I spec 0/49/12 and I can still toss FoL like there's no tomorrow.
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