Concept of the MT - What your thoughts?

[Teah]

While I don't know if anyone here will remember me really.

For me it is this concept of the MT that made me quit this game once, and quit tanking all together after that. Partly because I rolled a protection pally back when we "couldn't" do it. Also because I'm female a majority of the gaming community will never think I am the "best". I know I go off on a limb when I say this but for a girl to be considered good she must be 30 times better and then some. This has been my experience in my 15+ years of gaming.

So here I am asking to all of you, whats the good part of using this concept? The only thing I can think of is so-and-so gets the tanking gear first, so the guild may be able to progress faster through content.

I've seen the concept of the MT tear tanking teams apart in three different guilds now. Personally even though I'm biased when I say this - I believe using an equal tanking team would be much better. Where the tanks get switched up, that way when someone has to go for a night its not this huge ordeal.

What are your thoughts?

[Dunkan]

Not really keen on the MT thing.

How do you decide who is MT? Gear? Chumminess with the RL? Experience?

Tanking team appeals to me, with Role Leader.

Yes, in the past DKP and Loot Councils used MT as the person that gets kitted up the best, but really is that such a good idea? What if they jump ship? The argument about having an MT for progression reasons only holds water if that tank isn't gonna leave. If they do, how far back are the other tanks? THAT could be a very real barrier to progression.

So, yeah I agree with you.

But I don't care what sex you are. If I play with you in game, you had better not be shit, is all. But if you are hot and like to Cyb0r, PM me lol

[Teah]

I brought up the fact that I'm girl because it was the main thing holding me back while "moving up" the ranks of the tanking team for awhile. I'm not held up to the same standards, simply put.

My current guild did it in a way where it was a combination of gear and RL chumminess. Mainly I've seen so many main tanks leave now, that I wouldn't want to use the system anymore. Despite being better geared and with more tanking experience with the guild. I found myself coaching new warriors for the second offtank position (not even the MT) instead of getting it. I'll be honest it made me mad. Now I'm chilling as holy with a protection offspec and loving every minute of it. When I look back on it all if hadn't used a system like this it would have never even come up.

It's obvious that a guild only needs a certain amount of tanks and having back ups is always good. I believe this model of main tank, first offtank, second offtank, etc. is too old. Especially with the changes to tanking in BC.

At any rate I must have done something right. When I stepped down they felt the need for another protection paladin even if the situation on the tanking team is exactly the same.

[SSJPred]

Personally I've been in multiple guilds.. unfortunately not MT'ing for anyof them since i was a druid and they wanted my leet druid to heal *sigh*

But most of the way the gear distribution went was tanks first.. in which it was sort of a team.. but the tank that was there most got the gear first.. then so on and so forth..

It ends up working out pretty well if you have a decent guild.. I'm loving my lastest guild they dont want my druid heals.. they want my shadowpriest.. and once my Prot Pally is 70 they intend on making me an off tank for 25mans after i'm geared up a bit.

Besides the fact that we have a girl inthe guild who MT's our 10mans most of the time and is a major OT for our 25mans. Soo.. some people are stupid to think that there is a "omg girls cant play" kind of thing going on..

The guild I'm in treats everyone as equal as possible.. they don't care if your a female or not.. because they just want stuff done..

Soo in short.. I love my Prot pally!

[Lightstrider]

Well the whole biased idea that females are incapable of handling MMO's is completely wrong. I leveled with a female in my first guild and she's one the best raiders I've ever seen. She's the top healer on her resto druid. My last guild's main tank was 22 year old wife of one of the guilds priests, yeah the guy played the healer. Ironically enough she played a male tauren because she hated getting the stereotyping.

If your geared to do it fine another guild that will let you do it. Just know that theres alot of fights that paladins aren't the best choice for tanking.

[Dazhbog]

As far as tanking goes: Whatever tank is best for the job at hand, is the MT. The bear's better at Tidewalker, the bear tanks Tidewalker, the warrior can dance, gogo Nightbane. I r 4 AE, I tank Murlocs, even if it's not the "premiere" spot.

So, I guess you can lump me in with a tank corps. with a role leader/officer. I know my tanks, I know their strengths and weaknesses, and they know 'em to, and know I'll do my best to put them where they can shine. Gear's gear, and if they want to pass it to me, or me to them, fine, but the loot system we have set up means no one has a higher priority.

Now, my situation is slightly different then most, and in some situations I **would** say the MT should get first crack at upgrades, if it means the raid group as a whole can progress further. However, I mean it more generally then that; in any given loot priority situation, the loot should go where it will most benefit the raid, both in current content and for progression.

[Scoria]

The way i see it its as much who is better as off tank as who is better as MT too and that ofc depends on the encounter but for the most part warriors have little disadvantage as a MT and little advantage as OT/off spec so end up as the best choice, then its just down to who has the gear level for it and fancies being punchbag on the night, the pitch of thier voice is not a consideration

[Teah]

Well the whole biased idea that females are incapable of handling MMO's is completely wrong. I leveled with a female in my first guild and she's one the best raiders I've ever seen. She's the top healer on her resto druid. My last guild's main tank was 22 year old wife of one of the guilds priests, yeah the guy played the healer. Ironically enough she played a male tauren because she hated getting the stereotyping.

If your geared to do it fine another guild that will let you do it. Just know that theres alot of fights that paladins aren't the best choice for tanking.

Thats great and all but this is how I have been treated for the past 15 or some odd years. Like I'm inferior now matter what I do. This has happened in a variety of guilds online and in real life as well. Please read what I'm saying.

Never once did I say girls couldn't play, and I'll be honest I'm not a bad raider. I'm always on time, repaired, with full pots/etc. I listen to directions and don't stand in fire. I even respec on the spot if its needed.

And why should I find another guild? So I can get stressed out on that tanking team? No thanks. I fully understand the limitations of our class, as well.

Maybe I should shut my mouth with my experiences but I thought people would get my point because my experiences are a prime example of a shitty system.

The MT/OT system. Its stupid in my opinion. Tanking team with the tank that fits the encounter the best? Ok.

[ticklefist]

Thats great and all but this is how I have been treated for the past 15 or some odd years. Like I'm inferior now matter what I do. This has happened in a variety of guilds online and in real life as well. Please read what I'm saying.

Never once did I say girls couldn't play, and I'll be honest I'm not a bad raider. I'm always on time, repaired, with full pots/etc. I listen to directions and don't stand in fire. I even respec on the spot if its needed.

And why should I find another guild? So I can get stressed out on that tanking team? No thanks. I fully understand the limitations of our class, as well.

Maybe I should shut my mouth with my experiences but I thought people would get my point because my experiences are a prime example of a shitty system.

The MT/OT system. Its stupid in my opinion. Tanking team with the tank that fits the encounter the best? Ok.

You're becoming combative with your supporters. Stop that. Sorry things have been tough for you out there. In here you have a community that couldn't care less.

A sanctuary, if you will

[SSJPred]

/cast blessing of sacntuary


/cast bubble
/use hearthstone

*muahaha i'm clear*

We were agree'ing with you .. Personally on the gear thing again.. It depends on what it is.. say t6 pieces.. they should mainly go to once tank at first soo they can get the set bonus. but I care more about downing the boss than I do on what he drops lol

[Lightstrider]

Well the whole biased idea that females are incapable of handling MMO's is completely wrong. I leveled with a female in my first guild and she's one the best raiders I've ever seen. She's the top healer on her resto druid. My last guild's main tank was 22 year old wife of one of the guilds priests, yeah the guy played the healer. Ironically enough she played a male tauren because she hated getting the stereotyping.

If your geared to do it fine another guild that will let you do it. Just know that theres alot of fights that paladins aren't the best choice for tanking.

Thats great and all but this is how I have been treated for the past 15 or some odd years. Like I'm inferior now matter what I do. This has happened in a variety of guilds online and in real life as well. Please read what I'm saying.

Never once did I say girls couldn't play, and I'll be honest I'm not a bad raider. I'm always on time, repaired, with full pots/etc. I listen to directions and don't stand in fire. I even respec on the spot if its needed.

And why should I find another guild? So I can get stressed out on that tanking team? No thanks. I fully understand the limitations of our class, as well.

Maybe I should shut my mouth with my experiences but I thought people would get my point because my experiences are a prime example of a shitty system.

The MT/OT system. Its stupid in my opinion. Tanking team with the tank that fits the encounter the best? Ok.

Well the system is garbage frankly. The only way to suceed as a main tank is to main tank some low guild in kara get gear. Then move to a guilds thats done SSC and get gear from that and move on.

That is unless you like spending 150g on repair bills to "progress" The only guilds that are "progressing" through ssc and TK are the guilds that will never be able to finish them. You just gotta use em and abuse them later and ditch them after you get gear. It's what all the MT's do cause they're all tired of dealing with idiots.

Oh and 90% of real raiders only see gear. They don't care about gender or whatnot.

[Aetherial]

A large percentage of MMO players are teenage males whose balls haven't dropped yet. They're still in the "girls are icky" phase and therefore you may get some bullshit from them.

Serious raiding guilds tend to not give a damn about what gender you are, as long as you pull your weight.

[Lieris]

We have a few women in our raiding team and we don't have much problem getting for raid spots as we're genuinely some of our guild's best players. Our officers (although all male) are generally quite mature and I like to think any overt sexism would get stamped out. I quite like leading 10 mans because I can take over vent as there are less people trying to dominate

I'm not a fan of the MT philosophy and even less so if loot is defaulted to that person. In TBC DPS and people not failing their retard check is more important than a decked out MT. Kael is a good example of that: so many people talk about taking two pyros on this forum when really if your DPS is pro you can interrupt the first without the tank even needing to use the shield (we did this frequently when learning the fight so no BT epics).

And always choosing that one tank by default for every fight I am even less keen on. It's a good way to make the other tanks feel redundant because there are several one tank fights. If 2.4 comes out with no retribution changes I will be going back to prot full-time (I currently only tank in Hyjal) and I will see whether they continue to use this one guy as MT on every fight. If I get asked to Nightfall a lot I'm not sure what I will do as I know it's the same shit in every guild.

If I don't get many tank opportunities though I don't think my gender would be any factor in that. I've seen it happen to a lot of tanks. regardless.

[Levantine]

A large percentage of MMO players are teenage males whose balls haven't dropped yet. They're still in the "girls are icky" phase and therefore you may get some bullshit from them.

Serious raiding guilds tend to not give a damn about what gender you are, as long as you pull your weight.

BAHAHAHAHAHA, qft. It's the reason I refuse to go on vent with my guild. I can't tell who's a girl or a guy. That, and the guild thinks I'm a girl, and I'm much too lazy to have to fix that assumption.

[QuantumDelta]

A large percentage of MMO players are teenage males whose balls haven't dropped yet. They're still in the "girls are icky" phase and therefore you may get some bullshit from them.

Serious raiding guilds tend to not give a damn about what gender you are, as long as you pull your weight.

wow, from one stupid sweeping generalisation to another.