Preliminary threat thoughts

[Dorvan]

Thanks to Jens, I've got some preliminary threat numbers to play around with from Naxx 10 (Maxxena). Keep in mind these are *really* rough....like, I just noticed I forgot to write down HS. Also, sample size 1 fight...so again, take with a large grain of salt. Here's the damage breakdown:

ShoR -- 25%
Melee -- 16%
Cons -- 16%
SoV -- 15%
JoV -- 8%
HotR -- 7%
Holy Shield -- 3%
Ret Aura -- 2%
Reck Swings -- 2%
SoV 5 stack -- <1%

Which yields the following threat breakdown:

ShoR -- 27%
Cons -- 17%
SoV -- 16%
Melee -- 9%
JoV -- 8.75%
HotR -- 7.65%
HS -- 3.3%
Ret Aura -- 2.2%
Reck swings -- 1.1%

Spec was 5/56/10, 3/5 Reck. Ret Aura unimproved. Cons may have hit the spider adds a little but not a lot.

Ok, now for the talent analysis:

1H spec -- simple, 10% threat boost, 2% per talent point
HotR -- also easy, .0765/(1-.0765) = 8.3% boost for 1 point
Seals of the Pure -- 3.3% threat boost, .67% per talent point
Reck -- 1.1% threat boost (white damage only), .37% per talent point
Redoubt -- 6.6% threat boost, 2.2% per point.
Shield of the Templar -- 7.4% threat boost, 2.46% per point.
Imp Ret Aura -- 1.1% threat boost, .55% per talent point
Imp Judgment (assuming no cooldown conflicts) -- 2.2% increase, 1.1% per point
Conviction (assuming 0% base crit, which will slightly overestimate) -- 2.68%, .54% per talent point
Combat Expertise (crit only) -- 3.2% boost, 1.07% per point

[Salamandra]

Hm, Seals of the Pure is slightly lower than I'd expected. Reckoning is, as expected, rubbish.

[Questioner]

Reckoning really gets hurt by the switch to SoV :/

[Fridmarr]

Hm, Seals of the Pure is slightly lower than I'd expected. Reckoning is, as expected, rubbish.

Interesting, I could probably snag 7-8% crit if I opted not to get seals of the pure. Of course that'll only affect auto attack, HotR and ShoR, so probably not worth it either.

[Dorvan]

Hm, Seals of the Pure is slightly lower than I'd expected. Reckoning is, as expected, rubbish.

Interesting, I could probably snag 7-8% crit if I opted not to get seals of the pure. Of course that'll only affect auto attack, HotR and ShoR, so probably not worth it either.

yeah, I just added in conviction. Seals of the Pure beats it out.

[Moses]

HotR, melee, reckoning, judgement and ShoR can crit and add up to 52% threat, all of them can crit at 200% threat per crit, so .05 more crit from conviction would yeild 2.5% more threat for 5 talent points, .5% each..

now though Seals of the Pure is still better once Avenger's shield is put in the mix I'd say it might be close enough to make conviction a possible build. though i guess that having a bigger holy dot on many mobs will probably keep the scales tilted towards seals of pure.

[Moses]

Hm, Seals of the Pure is slightly lower than I'd expected. Reckoning is, as expected, rubbish.

Interesting, I could probably snag 7-8% crit if I opted not to get seals of the pure. Of course that'll only affect auto attack, HotR and ShoR, so probably not worth it either.

yeah, I just added in conviction. Seals of the Pure beats it out.

beat me to it

[Legionp]

I'd like to add to this thread that in Naxx 10 today I was pulling about 25% of the groups total damage on thrash (number one). I've always been high on live with a 40/21 build, but this was just friggen fun! Undead instances are just OP. I have more instant cast skills and cool downs than I know what to do with. I was pulling aggro off the OT deathknight without ever actually targeting his mob. I really hope that our DPS and threat are not scaled based on the numbers that come out of Naxx 10/25. With most things being undead, its fairly OP to use exorcism and Wrath along with everything else.

[Elsie]

This breakdown is interesting, but we need something that includes relative threat gain of avenger's shield, hammer of wrath, holy wrath, and exorcism.

If any do significant holy damage compared to normal skills (which is fairly plausible for judgment) then we will probably end up 'weaving' them in.

[moduspwnens]

If HotR makes up less than 10% of our threat, and using a fast weapon only nerfs its damage by X%, is it really that big of a deal to use a fast weapon? I mean, heck, warriors take a threat nerf, too, by using a weapon with parry and defense on it rather than hit and expertise.

[Legionp]

If HotR makes up less than 10% of our threat, and using a fast weapon only nerfs its damage by X%, is it really that big of a deal to use a fast weapon? I mean, heck, warriors take a threat nerf, too, by using a weapon with parry and defense on it rather than hit and expertise.

HotR has been modified to be normalized with weapon DPS, not weapon damage, so essentially fast weapons work just as well as slow weapons.


This is new i believe.

[moduspwnens]

If HotR makes up less than 10% of our threat, and using a fast weapon only nerfs its damage by X%, is it really that big of a deal to use a fast weapon? I mean, heck, warriors take a threat nerf, too, by using a weapon with parry and defense on it rather than hit and expertise.

HotR has been modified to be normalized with weapon DPS, not weapon damage, so essentially fast weapons work just as well as slow weapons.


This is new i believe.

The WoWhead talent calculator (updated for the recent build) says 120% of weapon damage as holy damage. I didn't read anywhere that it was normalized.

[Selinaria]

The WoWhead talent calculator (updated for the recent build) says 120% of weapon damage as holy damage. I didn't read anywhere that it was normalized.

I made a quick thread about it today, did a quick informal test.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... hp?t=13527

Basically the actual damage of the weapon has no actual meaning anymore to HotR damage, the only factor is weapon dps if this holds true.

[moduspwnens]

The WoWhead talent calculator (updated for the recent build) says 120% of weapon damage as holy damage. I didn't read anywhere that it was normalized.

I made a quick thread about it today, did a quick informal test.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... hp?t=13527

Basically the actual damage of the weapon has no actual meaning anymore to HotR damage, the only factor is weapon dps if this holds true.

Oh yeah, I remember reading that thread. My bad.

[Vanifae]

The WoWhead talent calculator (updated for the recent build) says 120% of weapon damage as holy damage. I didn't read anywhere that it was normalized.

I made a quick thread about it today, did a quick informal test.

http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.com/ ... hp?t=13527

Basically the actual damage of the weapon has no actual meaning anymore to HotR damage, the only factor is weapon dps if this holds true.

Testing today in the Nexus I was getting rather large numbers for my Hammer of the Righteous while using Hammer of Judgement.