New 3.1 changes on PTR

[Makaijin]

I can understand it affecting SoL and JoL, but it affecting PoM, Earthshield and Lifeblooms sounds more like a bug, bad programming, or at worst bad design. If DP is intended to be our new pernament mana battery then having it affect incoming heals from others is really badly thought out.

[Zironic]

I can understand it affecting SoL and JoL, but it affecting PoM, Earthshield and Lifeblooms sounds more like a bug, bad programming, or at worst bad design. If DP is intended to be our new pernament mana battery then having it affect incoming heals from others is really badly thought out.

The positive news is that if DP affects PoM, Earthshield and Lifeblooms then those 3 are probably also affected twice by Divinity.

[theckhd]

Holy Shield scaling seems to be fixed now. The AP coefficient has been upped to 1.3*0.056, or 0.0728.

Jere, have you tested whether the SP coefficient and base value also been scaled by 1.3? I'm assuming they did, but I want to make sure I update the MATLAB code properly.

Would 3/5 Conviction and 2/3 Crusade still overtake Seals of the Pure? Crusade feels like the only talent to drop something from to take SA, apart from GbtL maybe. If only they'd put SA next to BoS, would make it perfect for going down the tree and should be deep enough for other specs not to reach it.

Just ran the numbers quick, and with Last Laugh and SoV, 3/5 Conviction 2/3 Crusade beats 5/5 SotP by roughly 40 DPS. That's not accounting for the new T8 set bonus, however, and not considering SoR with Broken Promise either.

I'll have a more complete weapon/seal/spec analysis ready once the patch gets closer.

[Gamingdevil]

Holy Shield scaling seems to be fixed now. The AP coefficient has been upped to 1.3*0.056, or 0.0728.

Jere, have you tested whether the SP coefficient and base value also been scaled by 1.3? I'm assuming they did, but I want to make sure I update the MATLAB code properly.

Would 3/5 Conviction and 2/3 Crusade still overtake Seals of the Pure? Crusade feels like the only talent to drop something from to take SA, apart from GbtL maybe. If only they'd put SA next to BoS, would make it perfect for going down the tree and should be deep enough for other specs not to reach it.

Just ran the numbers quick, and with Last Laugh and SoV, 3/5 Conviction 2/3 Crusade beats 5/5 SotP by roughly 40 DPS. That's not accounting for the new T8 set bonus, however, and not considering SoR with Broken Promise either.

I'll have a more complete weapon/seal/spec analysis ready once the patch gets closer.

Thanks, I am now torn between dropping 1 point in either Crusade, SA or GbtL or praying for blizzard to put it in the 5th tier instead

Keep up the good work.

[Wibu]

Glyph of Seal of Righteousness is 10% on the PTR in the latest build.

[theckhd]

Thanks, I am now torn between dropping 1 point in either Crusade, SA or GbtL or praying for blizzard to put it in the 5th tier instead

Keep up the good work.

I would prefer they move it down a tier too, or shift something else down a tier. OHWS on the same tier as Reckoning, for example, would make sense to me.

Then again, I'm getting the impression that with these changes Blizzard doesn't want us to take Crusade. Maybe they haven't balanced tank threat around it.

I'll still probably go 54 in prot and 2/3 Crusade if I can though. If SA isn't as necessary, I could see dropping a point there to get the extra point in Crusade, but unless threat is really an issue I'm not sure it's worth doing.

Also worth noting that if 54 points in Prot is required, it starts shifting us away from slow weapons (a la Broken Promise) because it weakens Reckoning - you should always get a better return from Conviction or Crusade point for point than you do from Reckoning.

For example, you get to this spec while working down the Prot tree. You have 4 points to place yet to get to Tier 6. So you could get 4/5 Reckoning at the expense of Divine Sacrifice, the last point in Improved Devotion, and other less important talents. Most people will be taking Divine Sacrifice and 3/3 Imp. Devo though, so that leaves 2/5 Reckoning as a more realistic investment.

If you assume you're taking everything in T6 and above, and you want to take the rest towards crusade, you can get up to 2/3 Crusade. To get another point in Reckoning, you'd have to lose one in Crusade, which is a net DPS and TPS loss.

Which means that SoR with a slow weapon will be weaker, because it's propped up somewhat by Reckoning, and you can only really take 2 points in it, or 4 if you sacrifice some utility.

It's yet to be seen how this all plays out with the new 2-piece bonus and such though.

[theckhd]

Glyph of Seal of Righteousness is 10% on the PTR in the latest build.

You mean they changed it back to 10% from 30%? Can anyone else confirm this?

It would pretty much nerf SoR-tanking as a concept; that extra 20% with 5/5 Reckoning was all that propped it up from being "completely unrealistic" to "slightly ahead with a slow weapon."

[Wibu]

Glyph of Seal of Righteousness is 10% on the PTR in the latest build.

You mean they changed it back to 10% from 30%? Can anyone else confirm this?

It would pretty much nerf SoR-tanking as a concept; that extra 20% with 5/5 Reckoning was all that propped it up from being "completely unrealistic" to "slightly ahead with a slow weapon."

Just did a quick on the spot test on one of the dummies.

No glyph SoR hitting for 181. Glyphed SoR hitting for 199.

181 * 1.1 = 199.1

Definitely seems like 10%.

[sapientialb]

Since we're all very unhappy about both the new libram and our lol setbonuses, has anyone taken the time to make an analytical post on the tanking (or ptr?) as to why they're so bad?

I'm firewalled from the WoW website, but I'd be more than happy to help keep it on the front page after I get home if someone posts a topic.

[Jasari]

I posted my thoughts on the PTR forums:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/threa ... 5077&sid=1

Feel free to add any ideas. I figured it'd be best to get something posted there since it's still early and there might be a little less QQ traffic from morons this time of day.

[amh]

Nice summary, Jasari.

[majiben]

You should also bring up that we need to have less than 53.24% avoidance raid buffed (even less should we have more than 540 defense or any block rating on gear) for us to gain full benefit of this libram. That is really low avoidance for any paladin tank.

[theckhd]

Just did a quick on the spot test on one of the dummies.

No glyph SoR hitting for 181. Glyphed SoR hitting for 199.

181 * 1.1 = 199.1

Definitely seems like 10%.

Interesting. Does the glyph still say it's 30%, or has the text been changed back to 10%?

I'm not suggesting your test is wrong; rather I'm speculating that if they changed the glyph's text back it's probably an intended change, whereas if it still says 30% it may be a bug.

[Sabindeus]

You should also bring up that we need to have less than 53.24% avoidance raid buffed (even less should we have more than 540 defense or any block rating on gear) for us to gain full benefit of this libram. That is really low avoidance for any paladin tank.

Especially when your T8 gear is positively LOADED with avoidance

[Arkhen]

So with those set Bonus now add lol Librams add bosses with gimkick mechanics vs pally tanks in ulduar and comparing to Warriors new glyphs and set bonusses...
The Blizzard Statement "Bring the player, not the class" sounds more and more like a sales campaing rather than reality.
If this goes live then i guess ill go perma Holy