vash 359 ring

from what i tested with my paladin, the ring from vash with haste reforged to either dodge/parry seems to be a very strong tanking ring preraid (my rings just wont drop ftw) since the agility + dodge/parry form the 359 generates more avoidance compared to any 346 rings.

it has bigger mastery pool being 359 item and more stamina too

the only drawback is the lack of str for aggro, but the extra haste do generate additional threat and overall, there seem to be little to no aggro issue with aggro in raids atm

any comments?

It is an excellent ring, easily one of the best available pre-raid.

it is good, but not better than the red rock band or the umbris band.

It is definitely better than the red rock band, will have to look at the other to check that out.

Why do you prefer the threat rings?

It definitely isn't. I already tested it. It gives more avoidance and threat. In fact it's also better than the Umbris ring.

So you are saying it gives more avoidance and threat (and obviously sta) but saying it isn't better?

lythac wrote:So you are saying it gives more avoidance and threat (and obviously sta) but saying it isn't better?

The red rock band gives better avoidance (because of the mastery) and better threat (because of the str). Simple as that. The expertise on my rrb is reforged into dodge and when I exchange the epic ring with both the umbris and rrb, it always turns up with less, although slightly, avoidance. That being said it's a good ring until you get umbris.

baphomet58 wrote:

lythac wrote:So you are saying it gives more avoidance and threat (and obviously sta) but saying it isn't better?

The red rock band gives better avoidance (because of the mastery) and better threat (because of the str). Simple as that. The expertise on my rrb is reforged into dodge and when I exchange the epic ring with both the umbris and rrb, it always turns up with less, although slightly, avoidance. That being said it's a good ring until you get umbris.

Red Rock Band gives better CTC. The agility ring, however, gives better avoidance together with a higher stamina. I prefer Red Rock Band for running heroics. It's possible that the higher stamina makes the agility ring a better raiding option.

baphomet58 wrote:

lythac wrote:So you are saying it gives more avoidance and threat (and obviously sta) but saying it isn't better?

The red rock band gives better avoidance (because of the mastery) and better threat (because of the str). Simple as that. The expertise on my rrb is reforged into dodge and when I exchange the epic ring with both the umbris and rrb, it always turns up with less, although slightly, avoidance. That being said it's a good ring until you get umbris.

The Red Rock band does not provide more avoidance. Mastery converts to % block at a higher rate than the avoidance stats do as it is only a 40% damage reduction rather than 100%. What you are seeing is a higher block+avoidance.

All with kings -

Code: Select all

                     Red   Umbriss   Signet
Dodge from Agility    0.0      0.0    115.8
Parry from Strength   31.5    33.6      0.0
Dodge from reforge    39.2    34.0     50.8


Code: Select all

                Red   Umbriss   Signet
Stamina         265       265      300
Dodge+Parry      71        67      167
Mastery rating  168       168      127


Signet compared to Red rock
+35 sta
+97 dodge+Parry
-41 Mastery
- Threat

97 Dodge+Parry offers way more damage reduction than 41 Mastery. The Signet also has more sta. This is what makes it one of the best pre-raid rings.

Edit- hum, I must have fudged my numbers somewhere, see Thecks.

baphomet58 wrote:The red rock band gives better avoidance (because of the mastery) and better threat (because of the str).

1) Mastery does not give you avoidance. It gives you block, and combat table coverage (CTC), but it does not give you avoidance.
2) Your numbers seem unreliable:

RRB:
+120 Strength -> 126 STR after Kings -> 31 Parry Rating
+252 Stamina
+98 Expertise -> +59 Expertise, +39 Parry
+168 Mastery

Net ratings of interest:
70 Parry
168 Mastery

Signet of the Elder Council
+190 Agility -> 199 Agi after Kings -> 0.6535% dodge pre-DR (115.4 Dodge Rating)
+286 Stamina
+127 Haste -> +77 Haste, +50 Parry
+127 Mastery

Net ratings of interest
165.4 Dodge + Parry
127 Mastery

Diff:
+95.4 Dodge+Parry -> 0.5398% Avoidance pre-DR, 0.3789% Avoidance at reasonable levels of avoidance (12% dodge, 10% parry, post-DR)
-41 Mastery -> -0.514% Block

The agility ring gives you a considerable amount of avoidance in exchange for some block. It comes out fairly close on CTC, but gives you slightly superior overall damage reduction.

Oh, sorry for the misinformation.

lythac wrote:Edit- hum, I must have fudged my numbers somewhere, see Thecks.

Actually, it looks like I made the error (115+50=205 ??)

I'll go back and fix it. Regardless, the two will come out fairly close in CTC, and the agility ring will be stronger for damage reduction.

How does it compare with [Felsen's Ring of Resolve]?
I'm currently running Felsen's/RRB and haven't bothered doing the extra dungeons to get my EG rep up.

using a CTC macro and comparing the Signet with the two tank rings i have, Signet gives more coverage than Felsen's Ring of Resolve, and Red Rock Band gives more coverage then Felsen's also.

For me with no buffs currently.

Felsen's and Red Rock = 77.41
Felsen's and Signet = 77.49
Red Rock and Signet = 77.62

(I reforged Red Rock into Hit rather than Parry, otherwise it would actually come out even further ahead in fact)

I just want to be sure, they removed the dodge and armor bonus from AGI right? Its just crit % now I believe.

NYRIN1 wrote:I just want to be sure, they removed the dodge and armor bonus from AGI right? Its just crit % now I believe.

They removed the armor bonus, but it still gives dodge.

NYRIN1 wrote:I just want to be sure, they removed the dodge and armor bonus from AGI right? Its just crit % now I believe.

Unless something changed in yesterday's hot fix, they removed the armor bonus with 4.0 but left the dodge in place. Hence that's why AGI items look so good still, because they provide more avoidance than STR items for the slots (neck, back, ring) where we can access AGI gear.

AGI provides about 60.9% of the dodge of dodge rating, while STR provides about 25% of the parry of parry rating.

The agility ring still has the best oppertunity cost of stamina per CTC. Excluding raid drops.